Addiction

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I'm pretty sure it's difficult to die from heroin withdrawal (T is right about booze and benzos, though), because dehydration is relatively easy to treat...so it's not unheard of, but rare. Most of the people who do die in h withdrawal have HIV or something else. You wish you'd die though.

Craner:

You're right, it's not in and of itself a bad thing, in a lot of ways it was the best thing they could've done for me--I have a decent career edge in part thanks to being pushed pretty hard. I should've filled that out more, I suppose. The bad part was that from a very young age, my parents started trying to live vicariously through me in almost every way. Because I was labeled "gifted", my parents put me in all kinds of competitions, probably thinking this would challenge me and I'd learn from it.

I couldn't do anything without it being made into a competition--from piano and violin playing (which I loved, but eventually hated, because I was forced into playing competitively), to sports, to quiz bowl (my team was on TV once, PBS), to science fairs and OM and all of that. If I won, or beat everyone else, I was the best kid ever. If I lost, I was a huge disappointment and they let me know it. (They also constantly compared my brother to me and made him feel like he couldn't measure up, and to this day he's very insecure in some ways because of it.) Still to this day, anything positive I've achieved they want to take complete credit for, anything bad I've done--well, that's only my fault. There were several levels of dysfunction operating above and below this one, but it's the one that sticks with me the most.

Porn: I haaaate porn. I think it's the least sexy thing imaginable, and I think voyeurs are terrible in bed. Watching porn enough can turn even a decent person into another imagistically-oriented drone who can't get off without looking at strangers "performing" (usually rather unrealistically) sex. This makes sex about getting off on "kicks", so porn watchers often have to keep finding more over-the-top images because the tamest ones stop working over time. They end up being totally visual and not tactile (a woman's nightmare!)

I think the worst thing to do to a teenage male is expose him to all kinds of cheap sexual imagery and pornography, because it plays to all of his worst, most adolescent (read: narcissistic, masturbatory) impulses and fantasies. We have a society full of adolescent men who never grow up sexually because they don't have to--sex remains forever something dirty that they think they need to "trick" women into doing with them, feel embarassed by, and then run from. They lose out just as much as women do, in the long run, because they don't learn how to form lasting bonds and attachments, the stuff that makes intercourse actually satisfying.

That said, I don't think censoring porn is a good idea. First of all, that becomes one of those "slippery slopes" where definitions can't be agreed upon. Second, it's ridiculously difficult to enforce. But ultimately, perhaps the worst effect is that most efforts to stamp out pornography only tend to reinforce negative cultural tendencies like "slut-shaming" and devaluing women based on perceived sexual experience. The better thing to do would seem to be start kids early on respecting others and try to make them see sex as an expression of positive rather than negative attachments or feelings. I think many people (males especially) have no idea how to vent their rage, anger, or other negative emotions through anything but intercourse/sex, and their partners end up bearing the brunt of this. They use sex only to make themselves feel powerful and not to express positive feelings like care, trust, admiration, infatuation, etc.
 
Last edited:

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Also, by the same token, I think female adolescents should be encouraged to get in touch with their own sexuality outside of a relationship. We have a society full of girls who never develop their own identity, who don't spend any time getting to know themselves before they rush into commited relationships that are beyond their ken psychologically and maturity-wise. They end up sacrificing their own sexual identity in the relentless pursuit of pleasing an infantile male who doesn't know what he really wants either. I think if teenage girls were more aware of their own bodies, and didn't think that the only way to discover their own sexuality was through intercourse (these days it's all about oral sex, apparently, for teens), then they would save themselves a lot of grief. Males are allowed that psychological independence, that outlet, but females still aren't... fluff-feminist shows like Sex and the City notwithstanding.

We need psychologically stronger and more independent girls and more empathic, socially adept boys.

I think in the U.S. we have or own sort of hikikomori, except here they're downloading porn instead of playing video games.
 
Last edited:

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
dave hickey: heroin satisfies all your desires, while cocaine just make you very acutely aware of them.

So true.

Ironic but unsurprising that the same thing (poppy plant) that is the key to heaven on earth is also the key to hell on earth.
 

STN

sou'wester
My cousin is a pharmacologist, or something, and he says that one of the dangers of coming off heroin, and doing it 'one last time' is that, as it's a fairly heavily ritualized drug, done in similar places, with the same people, the body learns to expect it and starts preparing to deal with it. As such, once your body's forgotten this, when you take a dose that you're nominally used to, you can be in real trouble. He's fairly well-respected in his profession, so I imagine this is true, what I want to know is, how much of the notion of 'building up a tolerance' is down to this, and how much is physiological?


I suppose I could ask my cousin this, but where's the fun in that?
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Porn: I haaaate porn. I think it's the least sexy thing imaginable, and I think voyeurs are terrible in bed. Watching porn enough can turn even a decent person into another imagistically-oriented drone who can't get off without looking at strangers "performing" (usually rather unrealistically) sex. This makes sex about getting off on "kicks", so porn watchers often have to keep finding more over-the-top images because the tamest ones stop working over time. They end up being totally visual and not tactile (a woman's nightmare!)

I think the worst thing to do to a teenage male is expose him to all kinds of cheap sexual imagery and pornography, because it plays to all of his worst, most adolescent (read: narcissistic, masturbatory) impulses and fantasies. We have a society full of adolescent men who never grow up sexually because they don't have to--sex remains forever something dirty that they think they need to "trick" women into doing with them, feel embarassed by, and then run from. They lose out just as much as women do, in the long run, because they don't learn how to form lasting bonds and attachments, the stuff that makes intercourse actually satisfying.

I agree with what you're saying in the second paragraph, absolutely. Yet in the UK (dont' know what the US is like), women collude in making this possible, by generally choosing arrogant men when they want to just have sex for sex's sake. For the rest of us, that's galling.

I disagree with what you say in the first paragraph, and can say from personal experience that it's utter rubbish. I am a voyeur in that I consume porn, and yet am incredibly tactile, which is (one of the reasons) why real sex is better than porn. Please don't reduce men to two-dimensional caricatures - it's extraordinarily dull to hear.
 
Last edited:

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I think many people (males especially) have no idea how to vent their rage, anger, or other negative emotions through anything but intercourse/sex, and their partners end up bearing the brunt of this. They use sex only to make themselves feel powerful and not to express positive feelings like care, trust, admiration, infatuation, etc.

This is interesting, and very true in my experience. But in a world in which sex is commodified, and (men at least, but I think women too) are endlessly told that you have little/no value if you're not having sex all the time, then this is a somewhat inevitable result. But it's kinda relationship sex vs casual sex, innit? Or (heaven knows), mayb erelationship sex is about power to some people...OK, that's fucked.
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
slightly OT sauce and mucky pics anecdote

i met the cinematographer Christopher Doyle once (quite a treat as i am a fan of the look of such films as Rabbit-Proof Fence or In the Mood for Love).

he was pissed and spoke of his fondness for the website Asian Muffin.
 
Last edited:

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
i met the cinematographer Christopher Doyle once (quite a treat as i am a fan of the look of such films as Rabbit-Proof Fence or In the Mood for Love).

he was pissed and spoke of his fondness for the website Asian Muffin.

porn and race is a whole other conversation... having grown up in an almost 100 per cent white environment (really until after university, which, when I was there in a provincial British town in the '90s, was tremendously white), the fetishistic aspects of my own sexual perceptions of non-white girls still troubles me more than most things about myself. I have enough fetishisations of various kinds (I'm working on it...) that this doesn't stand out, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be immune from it. Thankfully I'm far too fickle ever to fixate on one 'type', however that 'type' might be defined...
 
Last edited:
heh...not really zhao.

I reckon it's gotta be your own kid otherwise its objective not subjective analysis. Like writing a book about grief and the death of a parent or a child. While you may empathise and sympathise, you dont really know what it feels like til it happens

Parentings like one of those zen/tao things where those that know dont tell and those that tell dont know. Maybe because if you know and tell and your kid turns out to be a cunt of an adult then i guess it turned out you didnt know shit but if you dont say then your arse is covered:p
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
But if you do a broadly decent 'job' then, y'know, any kid can go off the rails. Worst thing seems to be if they can't talk to you about absolutely anything ie (from talking to people who do have kids; I don't, so what do I know yadda yadda).

Anyways, addictions (reckon there's clamouring for a parenting thread, for whoever wants to start it!) - just struck me that I hadn't mentioned Requiem for a Dream yet (film - still not read the Selby Jr book, shamefully). That draws interesting parallels between 'classic' addiciton (hard drugs) and 'acceptable' addiction (prescribed drugs, media). PLus it's a gorgeous film...
 
Last edited:
haha...then its not enough to do a broadly decent job. You have to do an exceptional job. Comes a time when a kid isn't anymore and has to take responsibility for their own actions despite any abuse and shit they took. Some of 'em dont stand a chance though if their parents cant take responsibility for their own actions.

I got 2 hard and fast rules for parenting.

1) never let your kid cry themselves to sleep

2) do as i do not as i say
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
haha...then its not enough to do a broadly decent job. You have to do an exceptional job. Comes a time when a kid isn't anymore and has to take responsibility for their own actions despite any abuse and shit they took. Some of 'em dont stand a chance though if their parents cant take responsibility for their own actions.

I got 2 hard and fast rules for parenting.

1) never let your kid cry themselves to sleep

2) do as i do not as i say

to add to that, as a result of er, zero experience:

3) teach them to stand up for themselves. it'll save a lot of shit later on.

4) accept that they will do drugs and have sex.
 

swears

preppy-kei
Martin Amis' Money is my fave addiction book. The protagonist's vices are all legal, but completely fuck him up: stuff like booze, fags, junk food, porn (and money obviously)... Written in 1984, but increasingly relevant since, you can read it as the liberalism and permissiveness of the 60s and 70s curdling into the consumerist self-obsession and voracious appetite of the 80s (and 90s, and 00s...)
I love the way John Self is constantly puzzled as to why he puts himself through all this torment, as he doesn't even enjoy his vices anymore. He's constantly ripped off and offended: one trip to a pro ends in him coming and being slung out before he's even had time to get hard.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Martin Amis' Money is my fave addiction book. The protagonist's vices are all legal, but completely fuck him up: stuff like booze, fags, junk food, porn (and money obviously)... Written in 1984, but increasingly relevant since, you can read it as the liberalism and permissiveness of the 60s and 70s curdling into the consumerist self-obsession and voracious appetite of the 80s (and 90s, and 00s...)
I love the way John Self is constantly puzzled as to why he puts himself through all this torment, as he doesn't even enjoy his vices anymore. He's constantly ripped off and offended: one trip to a pro ends in him coming and being slung out before he's even had time to get hard.

Great book, but again I would say that it's much less relevant now than it was when it was published. I appreciate your analysis of it though. :)
 

swears

preppy-kei
How is it less relevant? There's more porn now, more cheap booze, more consumerism, more weird/bad money floating around, etc. I don't want to give the ending away but the movie deal, for instance, is all a bit... sub-prime.

It's like Amis could see the wind changing in the early 80s, and I don't think it's changed again just yet.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
People are much more aware of the dangers of booze, porn, bad food and other legal vices these days. It's actually getting harder and harder to get cheap drink because of goverment intervention, not to even mention the cost of fags. Consumerism is in decline because people ain't go no money. The weird/bad money thing I might give you, but I reckon that's more of a structural thing, less to do with the addictions or other behaviour of particular people. It had more opportunity to feed into addictive habits in the 90s and turn of the 00s when ordinary people had access to substantial credit. Now it effects people in a much more anonymous way.

Please don't take this as a 'things are so much better these days' post. It's more just 'things are different these days'.
 

swears

preppy-kei
I see your point, but I don't think the recession is going to change people's habits that much, Money was written during the downturn of the early 80s anyway, there's stuff about unemployment and the oil hike in there. People often turn to their vices to get through bad times, and sales of cheap convenience and junk foods are up.
 

BareBones

wheezy
all true points, but just because people have less disposable income at the moment doesn't mean they necessarily have less desire to get fucked up... haven't pizza hut reported a boost in sales since the credit crunch, as all the wearied and anxious bankers just want to slump into a resigned junk food stupor and forget about only buying healthy waitrose organic vegetables or whatever

still well easy to get cheap booze, too... in london anyway

anyway once you start talking about it more generally like this and factoring in stuff like the global economic situation, the whole thing starts getting way more complex and kinda beyond my mental capacities

also, glad nomad's back, love reading her posts

EDIT: swears beat me to it
EDITEDIT: beat me to my original point, i mean, not the welcome back nomad
 
Top