Anarchism

B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
matt b said:
The mail, is of course no stranger to 'glad s/he's dead' stories:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ad-says-rape-victim-won-historic-259-000.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-389679/Im-glad-al-Zarqawi-dead-says-Ken-Bigleys-brother.html
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Funny you shoudl link to those two articles, as I think it'll be an ideal opportunity to reinforce the fact that it's not just people who rape or behead people (horrific as they are) who have blood and misery on their hands.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
scottdisco said:
certainly one reason why Nu Lab poured a lot into public spending was related to the chronic under-investment in services that their predecessors were guilty of.

also i love this broken Britain meme - you'll have read many commentators on it - that some Tories promulgate.
the spectacle of Thatcher's direct descendants, and their populist media allies, making political capital out of this, contains almost exquisite levels of shamelessness.

great thread!
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Yes, you have to ask "Well who broke it then?", don't you?

So did Labour really fix anything, or just do a bang-up job of papering over the cracks? A question for another thread, probably.
 
D

droid

Guest
baboon2004 said:
Ffs, the woman apologised for Pinochet. What kind of monster does that?
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What was that quote from Thatcher about Pol Pot's spokesman? "There are moderates amongst the Khmer Rouge with which Britain can do business"... in the early 80's mind.
 
D

droid

Guest
Did anyone say that?

Rather she was a head of state who vocally supported the Khmer Rouge, Pinochet and Apartheid. If she was Iranian you'd be calling for her to be violently deposed.
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Well, there was no vocal support of the Khmer Rouge. There was SAS support that everyone kept denying. The SA sanctions thing was a bit more inbteresting and complex than simply being down to the fact that Thatcher was a pro-apartheid racist. I refer you to pps. 320-334 of John Campbell's Margaret Thatcher Volume 2: The Iron Lady.
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
I don't adore Lady T, I just loath all this shrieking and one-eyedness.

I think her legacy is pretty destructive, but that wasn't because of her will or intentions; her administrations were disfunctional from day 1.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
craner said:
he SA sanctions thing was a bit more inbteresting and complex than simply being down to the fact that Thatcher was a pro-apartheid racist.
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No, I don't think she was.

I think Hattersley(?) had it right when he said she may dislike apartheid, but she doesn't dislike it enough.

Someone who crows about only giving an inch on sanctions and refers to black S Africans with "perfectly good jobs" cleary doesn't have much of a perspective on the problem.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Heh -- I go off for a meeting for just over one hour, and the anarchism thread has turned into a discussion of Margaret Thatcher!
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Well, she also viewed it in a Cold War perspective - she didn't want to wreck the apartheid State and leave a void: she was looking at the example of so many African states that had "liberated" themselves. Of course, the problems those States all had were directly due to US and USSR destabilisation and intervention. There's load of interesting stuff about the KGB in Africa in this and the US in Africa in this. Look, I'm not saying that this is particularly great, but she wasn't a proponent of apartheid. And that's what was being insinuated.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
K-Punk had an interesting perspective, once upon a time:

It’s almost charming to hear someone use the term ‘old-school socialism’ positively in the 00s. Without being too facetious, what are people who decry Thatcherism yearning for in the pre-Thatcherite 70s? Power cuts? Raging inflation? Laughably inefficient nationalized industries? All subsidized, I shouldn’t need to add, mainly by the proletariat through taxation.

There are, needless to say, serious problems with Thatcherism but they don’t include its demolition of a decadent socialist hegemony which was as complacently cheerful in its role of administering post-Empire decline as was its Tory counterpart.
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D

droid

Guest
craner said:
Well, there was no vocal support of the Khmer Rouge. There was SAS support that everyone kept denying. The SA sanctions thing was a bit more inbteresting and complex than simply being down to the fact that Thatcher was a pro-apartheid racist. I refer you to pps. 320-334 of John Campbell's Margaret Thatcher Volume 2: The Iron Lady.
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Yes, the SAS military training of the genocidal Khmer Rouge that ran from 83 to 91, and public utterances along the lines of the one i mentioned and:"the more reasonable ones in the Khmer Rouge will have to play some part in a future government".

Lets not also forget the continued support and arm sales to the genocidal Indonesian dictatorship, support and apologetics for US backed atrocities in central America (“the American government have stated time and again that they are seeking a solution by peaceful means to the problems of Central America”), arms sales to Iraq (and Iran) post Halabja, dirty tricks and army complicity in loyalist murders in NI etc...

As for SA... sure it was complex, but the fact that even David Cameron has disowned Thatcher and Reagan's morally deficient 'constructive engagement' policy tells you all you really need to know... regardless of her concerns about 'stability' (always used to justify monstrous policies), she vociferously opposed the sanctions movement and demonised the ANC.

I guess the really sorry fact is that Labours foreign policy record is even more reprehensible.

I can feel Droid composing an enormous post with lashings of links. (Holds breath.)
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Sorry to disappoint Oliver. Its not really necessary TBH
 
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