NYTimes: Why do men lie about sex?

Z

zhao

there are no accidents
ripley said:
did you think I wouldn't participate?
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oh i had no idea.

it looks like you are trying to decide on a lie in this picture

aliens_shot1l.jpg
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
Seems to me that the median is in fact a much better representation of what the "average" respondent said--especially since the "mean" of a given set is usually skewed toward the right. If the median is higher, it's still an indication that more men reported higher numbers.
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No, you're still not getting it. It may be a "better" representation of what the average respondent said (although I would dispute that) but if they are using the median then this argument simply is not relevant:

"By way of dramatization, we change the context slightly and will prove what will be called the High School Prom Theorem. We suppose that on the day after the prom, each girl is asked to give the number of boys she danced with. These numbers are then added up giving a number G. The same information is then obtained from the boys, giving a number B.

Theorem: G=B

Proof: Both G and B are equal to C, the number of couples who danced together at the prom. Q.E.D.”
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The problem being, if you know the mean number of dances for boys and girls and the number of boys and girls you can work out the total number of dances for each sex and it ought to be the same. With the median number of dances for each sex and the total number of boys and girls you cannot say anything about the total number of dances for each sex. The High School Prom Theorem doesn't apply.
The article is linking data using the median with an argument depending on using the mean to argue that the data is incorrect, this is a worthless argument.

It is also totally and utterly wrong to say "the "mean" of a given set is usually skewed toward the right". Why would it be?
I think you are being confused by that "median vs mean" thing you linked to which is saying that mean can be skewed by large outlying values. For example "The mean house price is inflated by a relatively few sales of executive mansions". In "any given set" there is no reason for there to be large outlyers and if there are they are just as likely to be to the left as to the right. Either way, it's arguable whether or not this is a skew as such, in the article that we are discussing if there were some women who had slept with an incredibly large number of men then that is relevant to the discussion. To disregard the promiscuous women and then say that men claim to have slept with more women than is possible given the number of men that women claim to have slept with is nonsense.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The real statistic here is that Americans are uptight prudes while us Brits are complete slaaaaaaaaaaaags! ;)
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
Looks like their maths was shoddy:

http://www.slate.com/id/2172186/fr/flyout
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I just said that didn't I? (And Edward, Mr Tea, Martin etc)

Three mathematicians go out to hunt ducks, the algebraicist fires first and the bullet misses the duck, going a foot above its head. The topologist fires next and his shot also misses going underneath the duck by a foot. The statistician says "got him!".
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The fourth member of the party - a pedantician - points out that you shoot ducks with a shotgun, not a rifle.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
IdleRich said:
I just said that didn't I? (And Edward, Mr Tea, Martin etc)

Three mathematicians go out to hunt ducks, the algebraicist fires first and the bullet misses the duck, going a foot above its head. The topologist fires next and his shot also misses going underneath the duck by a foot. The statistician says "got him!".
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Of course. Kudos to all who already pointed that out, just posting the link...
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
IdleRich said:
No, you're still not getting it. It may be a "better" representation of what the average respondent said (although I would dispute that) but if they are using the median then this argument simply is not relevant:


The problem being, if you know the mean number of dances for boys and girls and the number of boys and girls you can work out the total number of dances for each sex and it ought to be the same. With the median number of dances for each sex and the total number of boys and girls you cannot say anything about the total number of dances for each sex. The High School Prom Theorem doesn't apply.
The article is linking data using the median with an argument depending on using the mean to argue that the data is incorrect, this is a worthless argument.

It is also totally and utterly wrong to say "the "mean" of a given set is usually skewed toward the right". Why would it be?
I think you are being confused by that "median vs mean" thing you linked to which is saying that mean can be skewed by large outlying values. For example "The mean house price is inflated by a relatively few sales of executive mansions". In "any given set" there is no reason for there to be large outlyers and if there are they are just as likely to be to the left as to the right. Either way, it's arguable whether or not this is a skew as such, in the article that we are discussing if there were some women who had slept with an incredibly large number of men then that is relevant to the discussion. To disregard the promiscuous women and then say that men claim to have slept with more women than is possible given the number of men that women claim to have slept with is nonsense.
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Ok, I see what you mean.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
zhao said:
i KNEW something was wrong with the NY Times article...
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I was mostly hoping that it made some kind of sense because it would have been nice for them to back down from their stupid "gender differences" articles that they put in the style section...
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
From the Slate article:

Not that Kolata's conclusion is inaccurate. As she points out, "Another study, by British researchers, stated that men had 12.7 heterosexual partners in their lifetimes and women had 6.5." These numbers, though Kolata doesn't say so, are means, not medians. In this case, it's indeed mathematically impossible that the numbers are correct.
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This is why I think the writer ultimately had a point. I don't know why they even mentioned median or mean when most studies of how many partners men have and women have in their lifetimes still bear out a defiance of the high school prom theorem
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
zhao said:
now the question: does repression facilitate an increase of sexual pleasure? i think it can, and does in many ways; but at the same time, maybe we are not equiped to answer this question as we have no proper way to compare -- because we were raised in repressed societies, and have never experienced (presumably) the totally un-inhibited, blissful ideal of sex as nature meant it...
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i always thought that was the entire point of repression on a micro level (think of victorian fetishes like corsets--bondage gear if anything ever was), to make sex more taboo.

there are all sorts of post-feminists writing about how my generation doesn't enjoy sex anymore because it's too ubiquitous and they've become too desensitized by the early availability and prevalance of internet porn
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
According to Foucault, repression always produces new pleasures. I'm not sure what he had to say about producing more pleasure, but such things are difficult to quantify.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
and porn, as we all know, is a form/tool of repression.

who was the theorist that said the more representation of sex is in a society, the more sexually repressed it is or did i make that up in my drug, sex, and spectralism addled brain???
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
zhao said:
who was the theorist that said the more representation of sex is in a society, the more sexually repressed it is or did i make that up in my drug, sex, and spectralism addled brain???
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Well it's a flat contradiction of what most people would assume is self-evidently true, so I'm sure one theorist or other has said it at some point... ;)
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
Mr. Tea said:
flat contradiction of what most people would assume is self-evidently true
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honestly, being frank now, cross my heart hope to die -- i can not possibly be more convinced that most, or at least a LOT, of what most people would assume is self-evidently true is utter bullshit.

think i'll make a list.
 
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