noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Who caught Zed Bias on Rinse last night? I don't think anyone else noticed...
Dubstep
fokse vektaire xeven
Arab Nazi
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childrentalking
Well-known member
the new Martyn 12" has got to be a late entry for dubstep related release of the year. i'm sure those in the know have had it for a while, but it's blowing my mind. i hope there's a lot more in this vein to come.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
I got the last 50 or so. Can up it if the podcast doesn't show. Was very big as it happens.
yeh it is sick. really into Twenty Four in particular. i think the one coming on Applepips is even better to be honest, All I Have Is Memories is unreal. http://www.myspace.com/martyndnb he's bringing such a different vibe for dubstep, really uplifting and light, so refreshing
yes that's great
also the forsaken on punchdrunk is great too, similar light, textured and melodic take on dubstep.
bassnation
the abyss
here comes the jazz and wanky instrumentation. cue a "live dubstep experience" with double bass-aplenty and histrionic vox. can't wait.
not into wobblers either, but if the same old played out jazz bollocks / bukemesque "proper music" is the answer, i'm not interested in asking the question. where did the future go, and whens the next genre due?
"There’s no ‘musicianship’ in my sound, that’s the enemy of my tunes."
burial
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have you actually heard either of these records?
cos this is almost the exact opposite of what they sound like or how they're made, they're just a bit more melodic two steppy and less dark, nicely made, quite simple really.
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bassnation
the abyss
i listened to a couple from that myspace link - sounds like something xpress 2 might drop on one of those jazzy mos mix cds. nothing wrong with that - if you like that kind of thing. its not how their made, jazz in dance music is a state of mind, and for me it heralds the end of a genres vitality.
i'm not listening to the same stuff as you as i don't hear anything jazzy in the forsaken or martyn tracks whatsoever, if anything they're like a mix between detroit techno, early jungle basslines and 2 step drums etc to my ears anyway.
and on the jazzy thing and garage for one was always jazzy and sophisticated, it prided itself on it, in quite a 'cheesy way' and the big difference between hardcore and jungle in alot of ways was the hyperspeed 'breakbeat science' that sounded like jazz drumming in loads of ways, so i think jazz has in lots of ways as a 'state of mind' had quite a strong hold in developing musics vitality, loads more examples too, but i agree that long rhodes solos and saxophones aren't really the one.
To me Martyn's stuff sounds more like deep house like Pepe Bradock and detroit house crossed with Groove Chronicles, kind of warm and uplifting.
Forsaken I think has an even more unique sound
But yeh I think to a great degree the parts of dubstep that I'm loving the most are ones which are innovating sideways rather than frontways if that makes any sense? Making connections with existing or past styles and bringing together interesting hybrids. But for me thats fine because I'm still catching up on a lot of stuff and so its come hand in hand with discovering exciting sounds and vibes new and old.
I've been listening to the likes of Benga and Skream with a bit of a different ear of late, I think they are the closest thing at the moment to what you might call the vanguard of hardcore (not necessarily the 'hardcore continuum', more as an analogy), really fucked music for large numbers of people to go nuts to. It doesn't always appeal to me but I think that sound is doing some really interesting things still. And its a sound which doesn't seem to have many obvious reference points, it seems to be really historically individual if you know what I mean. The more I think about it the more I feel that they're still big innovators at the moment, whether it agrees with my palette or not. if they were to get more feminity into the sound to lighten the aggression then it could be an absolutely amazing sound
D1 is still killing it, definitely one of the best in the scene
Forsaken I think has an even more unique sound
But yeh I think to a great degree the parts of dubstep that I'm loving the most are ones which are innovating sideways rather than frontways if that makes any sense? Making connections with existing or past styles and bringing together interesting hybrids. But for me thats fine because I'm still catching up on a lot of stuff and so its come hand in hand with discovering exciting sounds and vibes new and old.
I've been listening to the likes of Benga and Skream with a bit of a different ear of late, I think they are the closest thing at the moment to what you might call the vanguard of hardcore (not necessarily the 'hardcore continuum', more as an analogy), really fucked music for large numbers of people to go nuts to. It doesn't always appeal to me but I think that sound is doing some really interesting things still. And its a sound which doesn't seem to have many obvious reference points, it seems to be really historically individual if you know what I mean. The more I think about it the more I feel that they're still big innovators at the moment, whether it agrees with my palette or not. if they were to get more feminity into the sound to lighten the aggression then it could be an absolutely amazing sound
D1 is still killing it, definitely one of the best in the scene
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It's not a popular view that you're espousing, mms, but I agree with you. It's become a commonplace to say that in dance music "jazzy" = "coffeetable" = "end of a genre", but I've always felt that the state of affairs was more complicated that that (will be happy to hear arguments to the contrary, though there are plenty already around of course). Then again, I didn't live through the 'intelligent dnb'/Bukem 'future jazz' debates in their native context and I for one have always loved a good chunk of what Bukem produced, yes even the 'jazzy' material (I don't mind Journey Inwards, believe it or not) (just laying my cards on the table). Good Looking/Looking Good releases are still a kind of gold standard for many of the most interesting leftfield dnb producers today (especially the SC and Covert Operations folks).
I don't think that jazz as a kind of 'state of mind' in the background of a garage producer's thoughts is necessarily a bad thing. Though of course if a producer throws in some faux-jazzy bits and thinks 'well then, now I'm a proper musical producer to be taken seriously b/c I've linked superficially to the jazz tradition', then obviously that's silly. I can't think of anyone who would actually say that to themselves and hope to be taken seriously, but maybe it does happen.
i'm not really talking about bukem etc, who i think were a bit shit apart from a few tunes,
i'm not talking about them at all, they were more or less the wrongway,
i'm talking about rhythmic abstraction and breakbeat science in jungle, which seems to be an evolution of abstract jazz drumming. When i first heard jungle in my mums house in truro way far away from london, i imagined the guys to be black wearing good suits and punky haircuts.
I don't understand too why jazzyness is always associated with post 73 fusion too, thats not where jungles abstraction comes from, although i think garage's jazzyness is definitley 80's jazz funk and Sade sophistication!
mo wax had this a bit, in their own minds, all that cosmic referencing of sun ra etc....
Well I expected you to say that and I knew that you weren't talking about Bukem, you were talking about garage - though for the record the 'Bukem is shit and the wrongway' view is one that I'll always resist, personally speaking, even if the entirety of dissensus were to line up to disagree with me.
I'm way off topic here, though. Interesting stuff here: "I don't understand too why jazzyness is always associated with post 73 fusion too, thats not where jungles abstraction comes from, although i think garage's jazzyness is definitley 80's jazz funk and Sade sophistication!"
fokse vektaire xeven
Arab Nazi
HA! This is classic.
Doesn't really work if you apply it to techno though for instance...
I think it's "fusion" rather than jazz that means the game is up, eg when bowie started doing drum n bass you knew it was fucked.
Well I expected you to say that and I knew that you weren't talking about Bukem, you were talking about garage - though for the record the 'Bukem is shit and the wrongway' view is one that I'll always resist, personally speaking, even if the entirety of dissensus were to line up to disagree with me.
Interesting stuff here: "I don't understand too why jazzyness is always associated with post 73 fusion too, thats not where jungles abstraction comes from, although i think garage's jazzyness is definitley 80's jazz funk and Sade sophistication!"
yes the bukem thing.
the softer non ardcore junglist massive stuff as far as i remember was being picked and played by certain djs almost simultaneously, maybe a bit later, it was an extension of the ravey e buzz of rave/detroit stuff, rather than a reaction to rave like the more j.a. influenced stuff, - until a bit later when there was definitley a 'niche' - i mean some of the early tek 9 stuff, omni trio, early bukem sets.
there are many different approaches that came out of rave i guess with loads of diff localities around london etc. there is never one definitive story, anyway..........
i'm probably being a bit harsh on bukem, few of those early ones were great, later on it got pretty nasty tho.
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
IMO it all seems to go a bit wrong, not so much when a distinct 'progressive' / 'fusion' faction emerges as when that faction stops being in a dialogue with the ruffneck / dancefloor elements and starts to be at pains to distance itself from them. Or possibly, when it succeeds in distancing itself from them. The early days of 'intelligent whatever' tend to produce some fairly inspired stuff, it's just the progressively insipid (and insipidly progressive, haha) retreads that really lose the plot...
thats more or less the same with any genre tho , as genres develop they reach low points, esp when artists only start to listen to that one genre and it starts to catch itself.