Roiling football blather

[tom pr]

Refs know this, and act acordingly. When clattenberg (I think) gave that mental penalty for Chelsea at Liverpool earlier this season, he was dropped from the Prem list for a month. When Styles gave one just as stupid against Man City recently, nothing happened

both were Styles - you're completely right though.

 

[IdleRich]

"Managers of the major clubs habitually criticise refs disproportionately, not just out of anger but as a tactic."

You're probably right but then it becomes a habit. Arsenal are out of the CL and out of the running in the league, there is nothing to be gained by moaning about how they are the best team and they've been robbed by a combination of cruel luck, dirty teams who don't play the game the way Arsenal want them to and refs who have given Arsenal "a clear message since March" that they were going to treat them unfairly - and yet moan they do.
Anyway, well done Heskey.

 

[tom pr]

i think what wound me up about last night was avram refusing to learn from his two biggest mistakes so far - not changing a thing in the spurs game until it was too late, and resting big players but not putting them on the bench just in case against barnsley.

bench last night was hilario, joe cole, wright phillips, pizarro and shevchenko. rest carvalho and drogba, fine, but keep them around in case you need them. and don't just sit in your technical area doing nothing when the other team throw on two strikers - he didn't react to ramos' changes in the cup final until they went 2-1 up, and he didnt even make a second substitution until it went 1-1 last night. that missed one on one from sibierski in the 88th minute was the ultimate warning shot and he didn't do a thing.

i've been more sympathetic than i should have towards someone who's making loads of money in a job he hasnt earnt, but it's run out now. what a tit he is.

 

[IdleRich]

"i've been more sympathetic than i should have towards someone who's making loads of money in a job he hasnt earnt, but it's run out now. what a tit he is."

I think that's a little unfair - since he's come in they have done better in the league than they were doing under Mourinho and they are still in the Champions League. I agree that Mourinho's substitutions tended to change matches for the better whereas Grant's don't but in terms of overall record Grant has done pretty well with a team that he inherited in disarray, especially when you consider that everyone dismissed him as an amateur who was completely out of his depth when he started.

 

[vimothy]

Grant's done ok. Ironic that Chelseea fans seem to hate him so much, despite the fact that they're in the semis in Europe and second in the league.

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah, he's obviously doing something right - or have Chelsea just got so many good players that even a monkey could succeed as their manager? - in which case the Special One doesn't seem so special suddenly. If Chelsea beat Liverpool Grant will have achieved something that Mourinho never did (with Chelsea).

 

[tom pr]

Yeah, he's obviously doing something right - or have Chelsea just got so many good players that even a monkey could succeed as their manager? - in which case the Special One doesn't seem so special suddenly. If Chelsea beat Liverpool Grant will have achieved something that Mourinho never did (with Chelsea).

Mourinho did assemble the team, Rich.

 

[IdleRich]

"Mourinho did assemble the team, Rich."

Yes, true, there are several aspects to management in my opinion. One of them is choosing which players to buy and sell (although this is increasingly controlled by the owners or directors), another is picking which of the players you possess to put on the pitch and the formation to play them in, a third is making changes during the game, both to the personnel and to the tactics. Inspiring and training the players you have to get the best out of them is also crucial obviously.
In my opinion Grant is virtually untried in the first of these things as there has been none of the previous largesse from Roman while he has been running the team. His only significant purchase has been Anelka which seems like a fairly uncontroversial and obvious one (it's been obvious that Chelsea needed more fire-power for a long time and obvious that Anelka wanted a bigger club). Fair enough Mourinho succeeded in this area to the extent that he built a side that won the league, however he did this at great expense and with a number of mistakes. He also, more seriously, assembled a side that seemed more than a little unbalanced with thousands of midfielders who never played and who were left exposed at the back by one injury to Terry and at the other end with only Drogba really doing anything (and it took him a while to come good). This left you with the bizarre spectacle of Mourinho complaining about the lack of money - I just think he made the wrong decisions.
As for the other aspects of management, like I said, I recognise that Mourinho changed games for the better with his substitutions and I think he's unique in making such immediately effective changes so often. Perhaps however you might argue that Grant either lines up better or motivates the team better because even without that ability he is still able to get results that have been just as good as Mourinho's this season and stay in the Champions League.

 

[baboon2004]

Bring back Claudio Ranieri. He was a jolly nice man, and only prone to the occasional career-defining-substitution-disaster.

 

[crackerjack]

As for the other aspects of management, like I said, I recognise that Mourinho changed games for the better with his substitutions and I think he's unique in making such immediately effective changes so often. Perhaps however you might argue that Grant either lines up better or motivates the team better because even without that ability he is still able to get results that have been just as good as Mourinho's this season and stay in the Champions League.

Grant has had a very easy run in the CL and is just about on course to equal the 83 points Mourinho got in his worst season in charge (the one where Roman started buying players Jose didn't want). He's nowhere near the 95 or 91 His Specialness bagged in his first two years.

 

[IdleRich]

"Grant has had a very easy run in the CL"

You can only beat what's in front of you. Man Utd have had an easy run as well - where are all the good sides?

"..and is just about on course to equal the 83 points Mourinho got in his worst season in charge (the one where Roman started buying players Jose didn't want). He's nowhere near the 95 or 91 His Specialness bagged in his first two years."

I'm not sure how useful it is to compare points totals from year to year though, the league varies in toughness from year to year and it's better to win it with 80 than come second with 100 isn't it? Also of course Grant was already off the pace towards getting 95 because of the start Mourinho had made.

 

[crackerjack]

I'm not sure how useful it is to compare points totals from year to year though, the league varies in toughness from year to year and it's better to win it with 80 than come second with 100 isn't it? Also of course Grant was already off the pace towards getting 95 because of the start Mourinho had made.

But equally you can't really compare Grant's record with Mourinho's last 12 months, when he was being conspicuously undermined by his chairman and those around him.

 

[IdleRich]

"But equally you can't really compare Grant's record with Mourinho's last 12 months, when he was being conspicuously undermined by his chairman and those around him."

True enough, all I'm saying is that Chelsea fans are being very hard on Grant. He hasn't lost a league game this year and Chelsea have made a sustained charge for the title when they looked out of it and they're still chanting "you don't know what you're doing" at him. Be interesting to see the fans' reaction if they beat Liverpool I think.

 

[crackerjack]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article3768457.ece

This is getting insane. It reminds me of some people I was working for last year; two owners who coudn't bear the sight of each other, one competent, the other useless. Competent one tried buying out useless one, but useless was too stubborn. Eventually competent had enough and walked away, whereupon useless tried to run the whole shebang himself. And the business ground to a halt.

 

[IdleRich]

I must admit I haven't been following this saga much, it's just...so... boring. I wonder how much Hicks and Gillet understand and are into football. When you see one or other of them in the crowd watching the game I ponder on whether they get it or to what extent it's just pr for them to be there. It's not important, I just wonder about it.

 

[slim jenkins]

Grant's done ok. Ironic that Chelseea fans seem to hate him so much, despite the fact that they're in the semis in Europe and second in the league.

It's hard to explain. Not that I 'hate' him as much as some, in fact, I like him...but not as Chelsea's manager. Perhaps early on he shouldn't have pissed in his own well with all that talk of 'exciting football', which sounded like a slap in The Special One's face and proved impossible to deliver. Chelsea just don't look convincing and have paid the price for trying to sit on 1-0 leads - christ - they've thrown the f*cking title away at least twice this year - thrown away a real chance to win it, that is...

No fan wants to be lumbered with a team like the old Arsenal. Minnows might secretly be envious but what most will never experience is the feeling we CFC supporters are getting now, which is a kind of 'success' that leaves us empty and disappointed...bit like winning the Lotto, buying a boat and being seasick...:slanted:

 

[IdleRich]

"which sounded like a slap in The Special One's face"

Something a lot of people would like to witness I suspect.

"No fan wants to be lumbered with a team like the old Arsenal. Minnows might secretly be envious but what most will never experience is the feeling we CFC supporters are getting now, which is a kind of 'success' that leaves us empty and disappointed..."

I dunno, I think most fans at least think that they want success at any cost - be careful what you wish for I guess.

 

[slim jenkins]

That's what I mean...those who haven't got it want it but some who get it still aren't happy...profound, eh?

 

[IdleRich]

"That's what I mean...those who haven't got it want it but some who get it still aren't happy...profound, eh?"

Still, you will be praying for victory tonight right? It would be plain embarrassing to get knocked out by Liverpool three times in a row.

 

[tom pr]

It wouldn't be three times in a row, but i think we'll win- third time lucky and getting Anfield out the way early will be an advantage - a bigger advantage than them having nothing more to play for the league. I was dead surprised they didn't rest Torres against Fulham on the weekend.

If we got Barca in the final I'll be delighted. if it's United again then it's a year off my life.