the (digital) hardcore continuum - no, seriously

matt b

matt b

Indexing all opinion
simon silverdollar said:
yeah every single time i've played it to other people the reaction has ALWAYS been, 'what the fuck is this?'. it's such an incredibly powerful, brutal record.
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scud's records sound like he means it in a way that panacea never did- not at all cartoony or macho posturing.

And it feels like it could've been a part of of jungle/drum'n'bass in an alternative history- as if Scud was attempting to add to the canon: there was an interview I read with him where he said he took it to BM to see if they'd stock it-

Bloke behind the counter played about 3 seconds of it before lifting the needle with a 'nah mate'.
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
viktorvaughn said:
i need to hear this now! cant see it on youtube.
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i'll rip it to mp3 this weekend and stick it on here. it's a real shame that it's not been re-pressed. it's on the DJ scud Rephlex compilation, but only the 'Version', which lacks the mental jamaican shouting and gun shots.
 
matt b

matt b

Indexing all opinion
I also loved the Jah Vengeance 7" on Full Watts

Did for digi-dub what Scud did for jungle
 
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padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
mms said:
hmm, i can't agree here, as scud pretty much did a style no one had ever done before with kill or be killed, totally psychotic dancehall. It's a perfect record, a little rage bomb, it just stops people in their tracks that one.
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nah clearly the original was, like a lot Scud's work, groundbreaking - a term that gets tossed around a lot but in this case is well true I reckon. clearly the remix 12" doesn't have nearly the same importance - I'm just saying I prefer it. you know how it is, sometimes there are these totally groundbreaking tracks but then years after the fact - especially if you weren't around to experience at track/album's initial impact - you wind up actually preferring the remix or the B-side or whatever.

also I'm not that into dancehall (other than some early-mid 80s rubadub stuff) so I expect that subversion of dancehall angle, which I very much appreciate in the way Ambush subverted jungle, is rather lost on me.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
matt b said:
scud's records sound like he means it in a way that panacea never did- not at all cartoony or macho posturing.

And it feels like it could've been a part of of jungle/drum'n'bass in an alternative history- as if Scud was attempting to add to the canon: there was an interview I read with him where he said he took it to BM to see if they'd stock it-
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well again I rate Scud & the entire Ambush oeuvre quite highly, certainly moreso than Panacea, in the general scheme of things. tho sometimes cartoony posturing isn't the worst thing in the world.

re: the alternate history of jungle - there is a good SR bit, from one of his end of the year roundups ('98? '99? it's on one of his blogs, the one that has all his old year-end roundups), about a certain Ambush track - I'm not sure which, it might actually be "Kill or Be Killed" - where he talks about tracks that by their very existence demand the creation of an entirely new genre, a la "Acid Tracks".

also, excuse my Johnny-born-lately/wrong side of the ocean ignorance, but what is BM (a record shop of course - but it was a particularly famous jungle shop or something?)
 
matt b

matt b

Indexing all opinion
padraig (u.s.) said:
re: the alternate history of jungle - there is a good SR bit, from one of his end of the year roundups ('98? '99? it's on one of his blogs, the one that has all his old year-end roundups), about a certain Ambush track - I'm not sure which, it might actually be "Kill or Be Killed" - where he talks about tracks that by their very existence demand the creation of an entirely new genre, a la "Acid Tracks".
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and the new 'genre' would be breakcore?
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
matt b said:
and the new 'genre' would be breakcore?
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nah, raggacore or speedhall.

"Kill or be killed" is more ragga than jungle, whereas breakcore is more jungle than ragga.

Ambush were also one of the main ppl to kick of breakcore tho, alongside DHR and Bloody Fist.

All of these genres degenerated even faster than dubstep, however.
 
V

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
john eden said:
nah, raggacore or speedhall.

"Kill or be killed" is more ragga than jungle, whereas breakcore is more jungle than ragga.

Ambush were also one of the main ppl to kick of breakcore tho, alongside DHR and Bloody Fist.

All of these genres degenerated even faster than dubstep, however.
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what is scud's background?

suppose it links up with bong-ra and the bug has his raggacore moments too.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
matt b said:
and the new 'genre' would be breakcore?
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yeh pretty much - tho I think SR was also talking in more figurative than literal terms.

john eden said:
nah, raggacore or speedhall.

"Kill or be killed" is more ragga than jungle, whereas breakcore is more jungle than ragga.
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well this is also true - tho the whole post-DHR/Ambush/ragga jungle end of breakcore was only the one side, there's also the whole Venetian Snares/Doormouse/FFF etc. end of it which was equally influenced by gabber & Biochip C. & Woody McBride-style acid & whatnot. also I guess the cutesy Top 40-sampling mashup side, which I mostly find loathsome...
 
M

mms

sometimes
padraig (u.s.) said:
right then. is it still around? actually, are any of those shops which were also labels - Subbase & Moving Shadow such - still around?
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yeah there are two shops, dubstep dj youngsta works or did work at one, they are actually having a funky house showcase this evening as it goes.
don't think moving shadow was a shop but correct me if i'm wrong.
 
R

rivet90210

Well-known member
Moving Shadows sublabel Section5 was a shop wasnt it...? So does that mean.... ?


This is all reminding me to try and get some of this scud/ambush stuff on vinyl, I just used to put on repeat the cd on CFET called 3 the hard way. 3 sets, the first is by Scud. It sends shivers down my spine... I still listen to it every few months or so. I can up it if anyone wants to check it out, there isnt a better intro to scud than this.

Anyone know what he is up to now?
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
rivet90210 said:
Anyone know what he is up to now?
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Painting, LOL.

He did some stuff with I-Sound as Wasteland, which was good.

As far as I know he was a raver who got sucked into the Dead by Dawn nights at the 121 Centre in Brixton.

He used to do a fanzine called Fallout which was pretty cool, like a rough punk fanzine about DHR and jungle and stuff with cartoons by Shizuo in it.

He's a great guy.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
rivet90210 said:
Toecutter?

-i find this stuff unbearable, but this guy is much more than bearable
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Yeah that's funny, I lost interest in a lot of this stuff but occasionally would get give records and Toecutter I thought was excellent - there is just something supremely and unselfconsciously fucked up about it and you get the idea he actually likes all this stupid pop stuff he is also taking the piss out of.

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2008/07/toe-cutter-interview-part-one/
 
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