luka
Well-known member
tbf your approach in politics is west london anti-intellectualism. Listen to Gilles Peterson at 3PM this afternoon.
You don't understand my approach cos you're not intellectual enough.
tbf your approach in politics is west london anti-intellectualism. Listen to Gilles Peterson at 3PM this afternoon.
You don't understand my approach cos you're not intellectual enough.
This seems a bit too jaundiced for me and also you're approaching it from the wrong angle. who is we?the thing that always struck me was people being all "we were all under one roof raving" and talking about people of all races and backgrounds and sexualities etc coming together. Apart from the fact that I don't believe that was really that true, it's kinda embarassing that for a lot of people this was the extent of their encounters with people unlike themselves, and that they found it exciting. Like... we're out here, we always have been, we always will be, you don't need pills and a breakbeat to to listen to us.
Third don't make a nuisance of yourself. You're as bad as Mr Tea.Nah I do. been there, done that. It's just SWP on psychedelics.
Third don't make a nuisance of yourself. You're as bad as Mr Tea.
I align myself in this "we" as an out gay man but to me it's basically anyone Othered by mainstream cultureThis seems a bit too jaundiced for me and also you're approaching it from the wrong angle. who is we?
I doubt raving changed cross racial relationships that much. There's some interesting writing about MDMAed up footie hooligans, how it collapsed some of those divisions but they were just stupid bollocks that probably would have disappeared anyway. I don't really think it was these changes that mattered - it was more than the moment was given over to a collective hedonism, drug fuelled, rather than the standard British nightlife mindset (drink heavily/try and find something to fuck/kick someone's head in if you fail).the thing that always struck me was people being all "we were all under one roof raving" and talking about people of all races and backgrounds and sexualities etc coming together. Apart from the fact that I don't believe that was really that true, it's kinda embarassing that for a lot of people this was the extent of their encounters with people unlike themselves, and that they found it exciting. Like... we're out here, we always have been, we always will be, you don't need pills and a breakbeat to to listen to us.
This is what I mean though. You are assuming it only works in one direction which is very very weird.like it always sounds a bit "I met a black man at a rave and he blew my mind, bro" when people talk about the coming together of different cultures in this way, just a really patronising way to portray someone's real life experience as a walk-on part in your own personal theatre
I doubt raving changed cross racial relationships that much. There's some interesting writing about MDMAed up footie hooligans, how it collapsed some of those divisions but they were just stupid bollocks that probably would have disappeared anyway. I don't really think it was these changes that mattered - it was more than the moment was given over to a collective hedonism, drug fuelled, rather than the standard British nightlife mindset (drink heavily/try and find something to fuck/kick someone's head in if you fail).
My assumption was that it's not a thread about politics at all.Nah, im actually trying to move the conversation on from the tedium that is left vs right wing. You're the one who wants to be some kind of washed up verso socialite (in this thread I mean.)
They felt so threatened by it they made it illegal which suggests it did have major political significance. I wasn't there for it either but for me at the very least it's a very useful myth.I mean I believe that people going to raves is good because raving is good but I'm not at all convinced by the idea of its major political significance, the people who would benefit from a shot of the culture are not the people you find in fields and warehouses at 10am on a Sunday morning, it's a very self-selecting pool isn't it
Dealing and putting on parties was entrepreneurialism in action for some folks.It probably did loosen some bonds to be fair. which would have been forced to loosen in a much more confrontational way under the command economy of the 60s-70s. Weirdly Thatcherite aspect of rave in that regard, individual consumer choice n all that.
This is what I mean though. You are assuming it only works in one direction which is very very weird.
but white heteronormative patriarchal culture is everywhere and generally a default setting that outsiders have to resist. So for example, growing up as a gay man I have to fight against pressures to settle down and buy a house and start a family when those things aren't natural instinctive pathways for me, and when I explain it to people that this isn't how I expect my life to pan out, they have to work to understand that in a way I don't have to work to understand that this pathway is "normal"This is what I mean though. You are assuming it only works in one direction which is very very weird.
Yes exactly, ignoring this side of the story seems bizarre.Yeah I mean listen to interviews with any of the black jungle heads and you will hear about how they were playing to white people for basically the first time. Acid house, despite being made by Black Americans was pretty much seen as freakish by many london rare groove heads. Raving in its more lumpen prole form broke that stigma down. Not to overinvest things but those changes did happen to a small extent.
At the time though it did have popular reach. It did seem to tap into groups of people you wouldn't normally see out. I remember going to a local pub (to buy hash IIRC) and seeing everyone decked out in pre-rave dayglo, Wallabees and Chipe. It has that kinda cultural reach that seemed to grab everyone if only for a minute.I mean I believe that people going to raves is good because raving is good but I'm not at all convinced by the idea of its major political significance, the people who would benefit from a shot of the culture are not the people you find in fields and warehouses at 10am on a Sunday morning, it's a very self-selecting pool isn't it