What is Deleuze?

[version]

I watched one of his lectures on cinema the other day. He came across like a grandfather telling funny stories to his grand kids,

 

[version]

 

[woops]

gonadologist the 3rd

 

[line b]

source of the infamous:

 

[line b]

I just read the source for that in cinema 2. he says a 'dream sequence' in a film is any moment where the character is moved by the world, like on a conveyor belt, rather moving through it with agency. So dancing is always a kind of dream to him

 

[version]

Pynchon takes the piss out him a bit in Vineland. There's a punk band playing a mafia wedding disguised as Italians and someone hands them a copy of "the indispensable Italian Wedding Fake Book, by Deleuze & Guattari," when it turns out they don't know any traditional Italian songs.

 

[line b]

do you know about the history of fake books?

 

[version]

I just read the source for that in cinema 2. he says a 'dream sequence' in a film is any moment where the character is moved by the world, like on a conveyor belt, rather moving through it with agency. So dancing is always a kind of dream to him

Does he give any examples of moving through it with agency?

 

[version]

do you know about the history of fake books?

No. I know what they are, but not much beyond that. Still need to read this too,

“On Deleuze and Guattari’s <i>Italian Wedding Fake Book</i>: Pynchon, Improvisation, Social Organisation, and Assemblage”

This article examines Pynchon’s literary invention of Deleuze and Guattari’s Italian Wedding Fake Book. Featured in his novel Vineland (1990), previous scholarship has either dismissed the reference as a throwaway joke or argued that Pynchon’s invocation of the philosophers is intended to point...

orbit.openlibhums.org

 

[line b]

No. I know what they are, but not much beyond that. Still need to read this too,

“On Deleuze and Guattari’s <i>Italian Wedding Fake Book</i>: Pynchon, Improvisation, Social Organisation, and Assemblage”

This article examines Pynchon’s literary invention of Deleuze and Guattari’s Italian Wedding Fake Book. Featured in his novel Vineland (1990), previous scholarship has either dismissed the reference as a throwaway joke or argued that Pynchon’s invocation of the philosophers is intended to point...

orbit.openlibhums.org

then maybe you know all this but- fake books from what I understand are the premier source for learning jazz music. called 'fake' because the music was licensed and back in the day you had to have a wink wink transaction with the music store to get your hands on one as it was illegal. so it could be read as a compliment as well as a piss take

 

[line b]

Does he give any examples of moving through it with agency?

I dont know if specifically in that part, but its pretty straight forward I think. when the characters are doing things, shaping the course of film. where as something like a dance is choregraphed and has its rules and is like a kind of voluntary possession

 

[woops]

a fake book is the melody line plus the chord symbols which is all you need

 

[version]

I dont know if specifically in that part, but its pretty straight forward I think. when the characters are doing things, shaping the course of film. where as something like a dance is choregraphed and has its rules and is like a kind of voluntary possession

I suppose there are levels to it. My immediate thought was that characters are pushed around by the events of a story too.

Any film or show based around destiny and timelines where things were always going to happen, e.g. The Matrix or the Loki series then would be purely dream sequence, according to Deleuze?

 

[line b]

thats probably a little more meta than intended. and wouldnt the story be in a kind of recursive loop with the characters? specific characters cant just do whatever if the story is to be consistent, they have their own logic that must be followed where as anyone can do a dance, you just follow the choreography. And then zooming out to dreams its the world seeping in rather than the dreamer going out.

really though I just thought the idea of dreams as posession by world rather than possesion by a singular entity to be fun

 

[line b]

I suppose there are levels to it. My immediate thought was that characters are pushed around by the events of a story too.

Any film or show based around destiny and timelines where things were always going to happen, e.g. The Matrix or the Loki series then would be purely dream sequence, according to Deleuze?

hes taking the phenomenological perspective where the goal is to dissect the type of image you are seeing right now and how it gets to you right then. Its a study of images rather than understanding narratives

 

[version]

Did he ever write anything about Lynch? He'd surely have had something to say about the Roy Orbison scene in Blue Velvet

 

[woops]

thats probably a little more meta than intended. and wouldnt the story be in a kind of recursive loop with the characters? specific characters cant just do whatever if the story is to be consistent, they have their own logic that must be followed where as anyone can do a dance, you just follow the choreography. And then zooming out to dreams its the world seeping in rather than the dreamer going out.

really though I just thought the idea of dreams as posession by world rather than possesion by a singular entity to be fun

anyone can do a story you just have to follow the script

 

[line b]

anyone can do a story you just have to follow the script

but if you are looking at a film as its own world with its own rules the script is irrelevant. and if someone suddenly starts dancing in that world theres clearly something going on different from the sequence of events up to that point

 

[line b]

stop badgering me I never claimed to understand this

 

[version]

Stop dodging coward!