Tory bastards
IdleRich
IdleRich
I understand one conservative mp suggested today that Johnson had lost it, was mentally unwell. It sort of seems that he could go rogue and form the Spaffer party... again like Trump, these delusions of grandeur in which they are bigger than the party. But it would be odd in that the one main difference between de Pfeffel and Trump has been that while Trump pushed the idea of himself as outsider, Johnson has always been an ultimate establishment insider. Even while you never get the feeling that any of the old Etonian types particularly like each other, they always seem to close ranks against others and back each other up. BJ abandoning that to form the Bozza party would be weird, whereas Trump doing the equivalent would make perfect sense.
Last edited:
forclosure
Well-known member
and this was the argument used when there was a refferendum on changing the voting system from First past the post to Alternative Vote
like this is forgotten now but that was the prelude for everything else coming after
forclosure
Well-known member
yeah but this trend of trying to pathologies politicians is garbage like i said when the Buffalo shooting happened this idea that there has to be some sort of pathological reason or something to do with mental illness that drives them to make these decisions.
like the monarchal rulers that were tapped in the head that brought about their decisions was a result of untreated syphilis, just say that these are bad boorish people we see it enough on social media.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Yeah I certainly think that the hung parliament in which the Lib Dems chose not to form a coalition with Labour but instead joined with the Tories was a massive moment in British politics.
For one thing it was a huge betrayal by the LDs of their voters, many of whom had voted for them precisely to keep the Tories out. At that point I swore blind that I would never vote Lib Dem, I could not believe what they were doing. And they propped up the government in exchange for a chance to have a referendum on changing the voting system - but their campaigning was useless compared to that of the Tories and as a result their proposal was soundly thrashed and the whole cause of changing to a fairer voting system was taken off the table and put back years. And the LDs were destroyed as any kind of electoral force - of course before that they never had a chance of winning, but they could potentially be kingmaker. To me even that aim was obliterated.
So LDs kinda disappeared and voting reform was out of the question. Tories won the next election and Cameron felt the main threat to their future electoral superiority was now coming from the right instead of the left and, to head off that danger, he called the fucking referendum, and then somehow managed to lose it with the result that the country was split, polarised and paralysed for the next... five, ten, fifty years... we'll have to see I guess. But right now the country is polarised, poorer, our rights have been diminished and so on... and much of this I trace back to the Lib Dems choice to side with the Tories instead of Labour.
And why did they do that? They could have joined with Labour as despite coming second and third, together they did have more votes than the Tories. I remember at the time they were afraid of the press labelling it a coalition of losers or something. Of course if it had been the Tories they would have chose as they liked and fuck the press - I just wish that the left had the fucking brains or balls or whatever, the ruthlessness to take what they wanted instead of worrying about convention and so on. But whatever, I believe that was a pivotal moment.
You understand that those were not my words right? I'm just reporting that the Guardian reported that some Tory MP said that. I dunno if he was a doctor but I doubt it and I expect that it was merely a petty attack on Johnson, kicking him while he's down and trying further to push him to resign. Which I understand, I personally would very much like to kick him when he was down, I would go for the bollocks I reckon and I would use a slightly unorthodox technique of just smashing him straight on with the toe, rather than using the laces as when kicking a football. I guess cos in my mind's eye, in this scenario, he is sort of sitting on the floor with his legs wide open and his groin unprotected from a savage running toe-punt, whereas using proper shooting technique as in football would possibly struggle due to his family jewels being low to the unyielding ground in this position.
shakahislop
Well-known member
i think i've said on here before, there was similar speculation about putin when he started the ukraine war, and the us spread similar rumours about Karzai in afghanistan when they wanted him gone (well they said he was a drug addict but its the same kind of thing). it's interesting how this 'the leader has a mental health problem' thing seems to pop up here and there.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
@IdleRich I don't think the numbers stacked up for a putative Labour-LibDem coalition in 2010, did they? The parties got 258 and 57 seats respectively, which add up to 315, 11 short of a majority. So they'd have needed the support of some of the minor parties, most of which are nationalist separatists who'd presumably want nothing to do with being part of a Westminster government...
IdleRich
IdleRich
I don't remember the numbers but I thought that they did. Certainly a liblab coalition government was discussed a lot in the press and on telly, and Clegg met with both sides to see what they could offer to entice his party to join with them... before finall choosing to side with that cunt Cameron and thus fucking absolutely everything up for everyone forever the utter fucking wanker.
Last edited:
IdleRich
IdleRich
I dunno if you remember but before the election there was a three way televised debate between Clegg, Brown and Cameron in which Clegg was deemed to have performed really well. For about ten seconds he was flavour of the month and everyone was saying that the LDs were gonna do loads better cos of his superhuman performance and some commentators were even saying that there was an outside chance that the LDs might somehow win outright.
That was until the election when they actually performed slightly worse than normal and Clegg was cut straight back down to size. And then he joined his party with the Tories and became the most hated person in the world the disgusting traitorous evil power-mad motherfucker. He was so desperate to be part of a government that he had no problem in taking votes that people had given to them specifically to make sure the Tories didn't win and GIVING THEM TO THE FUCKING TORIES THE FUCKING CUNT. To my mind an act of such pure evil I'm actually getting violently angry about it all over again. I didn't even vote LD but I still think that the punishment he deserves for that is certainly death at the very least..
That was until the election when they actually performed slightly worse than normal and Clegg was cut straight back down to size. And then he joined his party with the Tories and became the most hated person in the world the disgusting traitorous evil power-mad motherfucker. He was so desperate to be part of a government that he had no problem in taking votes that people had given to them specifically to make sure the Tories didn't win and GIVING THEM TO THE FUCKING TORIES THE FUCKING CUNT. To my mind an act of such pure evil I'm actually getting violently angry about it all over again. I didn't even vote LD but I still think that the punishment he deserves for that is certainly death at the very least..
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Is there precedence for a minority government of that sort, though?
I can't remember the discussion that went on back then, but for a conventional, majority government, the Labour-LD coalition would have needed the help of the SNP, SLDP and Plaid - three parties whose raison d'etre is independence from Westminster. So perhaps the feeling was that that would have given far too much power to those parties and would have risked the Union... although ironically, the LDs enabling a Tory-dominated coalition government may have helped achieve the same thing in the long run anyway, by paving the way for the subsequent 12 years of non-stop shittery.
I can't remember the discussion that went on back then, but for a conventional, majority government, the Labour-LD coalition would have needed the help of the SNP, SLDP and Plaid - three parties whose raison d'etre is independence from Westminster. So perhaps the feeling was that that would have given far too much power to those parties and would have risked the Union... although ironically, the LDs enabling a Tory-dominated coalition government may have helped achieve the same thing in the long run anyway, by paving the way for the subsequent 12 years of non-stop shittery.
Last edited:
IdleRich
IdleRich
What about the Greens? Unless I've got some kind of weird false memory syndrome there were definitely a few hours if not a couple of days where it was up in the air as to whether the next PM was gonna be Brown or Cameron...
This is what wiki says "Coalition talks began immediately between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, and lasted for five days. There was an aborted attempt to put together a Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition (although 11 seats from other smaller parties would have been required)."
This is what wiki says "Coalition talks began immediately between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, and lasted for five days. There was an aborted attempt to put together a Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition (although 11 seats from other smaller parties would have been required)."
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, the Greens got Brighton Pavilion, like they always do. The hard-right DUP would be pretty unlikely to want to form a coalition led by Labour, Sinn Fein don't even send their MPs to Westminster because they don't recognise it as a legitimate government in Northern Ireland, and that leaves the SDLP (who, like SF, favour Irish unification), the SNP and Plaid.
So it would have taken the SNP, Plaid and either the SDLP, or both of the Green and Alliance (who? exactly) party's single MPs, for the almighty anti-Tory coalition to have had a majority of either two or one.
Edit: which is not to say it couldn't have worked in principle, as the Tories made an information coalition with the DUP in 2017 which gave them a majority of one, but it seems far-fetched that parties who want Scotland, Wales and NI to leave the UK would want to be part of a Westminster government.
Last edited:
forclosure
Well-known member
i mean for me rather than just a swift kick i'd want his method of exit to be long drawn out and excruciating i know those weren't your words i was just commenting on them
.
One thing you don't mention with the Lib Dems aswell is not just that they betrayed their voters as far as going into coalition with Tories but also their full 180 on tuition fees (which lets face is as much as there were people who felt that students needed to stop whinging and get on with it) people in this country had to have a serious discussion about higher education not just in terms of how it was free but the very fact that alot of them the idea of even getting into Higher education was a pie in the sky idea.) and as much as i hate to use this kind of talk i'm part of that first generation who had to deal with those exorbant fees(which was especially fucked cause i knew alot of people, smart people who when they went up just straight decided they were going to do aprentiships and coming from communities where education and the power that you get from getting a good education was drilled into you from early)
I wasn't voting age at the time so i couldn't vote but i can tell you straight up that when "Cleggmania" was happening i just wasn't buying anything that he was saying
forclosure
Well-known member
they were the first ever televised debates in the country so yeah i definitly remember
one more step onwards in terms of the Americanisation of British politics which funny enough is something i remember Rees Mogg said about Johnson is that he's got a very "American" Prime Ministerial style
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Some great work from KG-M there.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Labour are doing a vote of no confidence in the government. Which I think is the whole house doing that rather than the Tories. What if the government loses though, is there a GE? In which case does it mean that Tories who said they hated BJ last week will have to vote to back him now to avoid a GE? Labour's professed aim is to stop the disgraced Johnson hanging around but I dunno quite how it a) is supposed to pan out or b) will actually pan out.
