The Feminine Perspective against the Manosphere

[thirdform]

I'm a Jewish secularist. But all my research indicates that compatibilism is a doctrine independent of one's religion. Correct me if I'm wrong,, but I see nothing about religion in the SEP entry on "Compatibilism".

Compatibilism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

It is independent of religion but for the non-religious freedom and determinism is erroneous, as Baruch noted, everything is determined to a greater or lesser degree. Freedom is an admission that we don't have all proximate causes to make a precise case for determining. Necessarily so, because freedom in that sense only makes sense by recourse to an absolute truth I.E: God.

 

[thirdform]

Right, but you're talking about actual people, not principles. And the principles of the hippies were consistent with those of the Civil Rights Movement.

What are principles if they don't have people adhering to them? hot air. ideology. Actual people matter more than principles. Once again: social being determines social consciousness, not social consciousness determines social being.

 

[malelesbian]

What are principles if they don't have people adhering to them? hot air. ideology. Actual people matter more than principles. Once again: social being determines social consciousness, not social consciousness determines social being.

Ideology and material conditions are co-determinative. And I adhere to my principles. What does it matter if all the people who tried to pursue counterculture failed? All the more reason to pursue counterculture. Don't fall for the trap of thinking that because a principle failed in practice that we should abandon the principle. That's exactly what conservatives say about socialism.

If freedom requires an absolute truth, that truth doesn't have to be God. It can just be truth. Real facts remain true independent of God.

 

[thirdform]

Ideology and material conditions are co-determinative. And I adhere to my principles. What does it matter if all the people who tried to pursue counterculture failed? All the more reason to pursue counterculture. Don't fall for the trap of thinking that because a principle failed in practice that we should abandon the principle. That's exactly what conservatives say about socialism.

Well, conservatives are right for the wrong reasons. They deny the capitalist mode of production will be succeeded. That doesn't mean they are wrong in calling all hitherto existing socialist as productivist and developing the forces of capitalism, although funnily enough most of them don't even ascend to this level, moaning about tyranny and dictatorship. So ironically the leftist and the conservative meet at the 'enlightened' (in scare quotes) political centre. Both become accomodationist and constitutive of each other. I am a communist, so not a leftist.

If freedom requires an absolute truth, that truth doesn't have to be God. It can just be truth. Real facts remain true independent of God.

You misunderstand what I say. The search for an absolute truth of being undergirding everything is the search for an existence separate from essence, and thereby a denial of the univocity of being. the sharpest line in Materialism is the bold assertion that there is something rather than nothing, not 'why is there something rather than nothing?'

It's not that freedom requires God or an absolute truth as you think of it, but precisely that freedom taken as freedom is a real contradiction. If you wanted to talk about capitalist freedom, democratic freedom, freedom within communism, then we can. But freedom is not an ideal, or more correctly making it an ideal traps you in an insoluble contradiction where you talk about nothing.

 

[therefore i am]

i read about the male lesbians and i am broadly in support of it. i would eat pussy. what i find interesting about pussy is that its something women have but men don't, but both men and women have anuses so cunnilingus is sapphic-oriented; men who eat pussy are therefore lesbians. the irony though is that even my dick is sapphic, i don't desire to penetrate as such, but to be enveloped and "devoured" by a pussy/vagina.

i've always been opposed to the patriarchy ever since i've heard of it. there's good reasons why. fact is even some women these days are pro-patriarchy, but that just shows you have female phallus worshippers and male pussy eaters. it's also known that eve was created from the uterus of adam---tsela is translated as rib by patriarchists/male supremacists and its also known jesus himself had female disciples who were written out of the scriptures.

i think the problem in these days society is that [wo]men loving women are looked down upon and the end goal is concentration camps for people who are sexually attracted to women. people literally get arrested for having sex with women, fired from their jobs etc. look at bill clinton, vince mcmahon etc whereas polanski is celebrated for anally(!) raping a minor and goethe gets praised despite being a pedophile himself. the far-right these days promotes a pederastic ideal because of its aristocratic/ancient greece ["womb" of the western world] associations, the homo-erotic fascination with the taliban, the samurai of feudal japan, nazis promote tsarist masculinism onto women in the form body-building fetishism (literally destroying and re-building a woman's body into that of the idealised male of michelangelo's david/ronnie coleman), the ss & ernest roehm. that's also why i'm suspicious of tomboys who are supported also by the far-right. i do think they basically support patriarchy, they don't really attack gender but re-enforce by acting like the adolescent males of ancient greece who are supported by the far-right, knowingly or otherwise. aristocracy is also very opposed to vaginas since women are considered utilitarian.

nazi-style sex is 100% anti-vagina also, you never really hear nazis talking about eating pussy. lebensraum breeding farms instead. also one of the problems of porn is that it shows too much, i much prefer masturbating to still photos of fully clothed women. but remember that it's speculated that george floyd did a porno by nazis who use that as a slur against him "vaginas are degenerate" is their cry. that's the real reason right-wingers are against porn and call sex with women degenerate, they just want all women killed like elliott rodger who is considered by them to be a martyr-saint. same with baldwin who was celebrated on incel sites for coldly killing a woman and loudly bragging about how he got away with it

 

[Mr. Tea]

the irony though is that even my dick is sapphic, i don't desire to penetrate as such, but to be enveloped and "devoured" by a pussy/vagina.

i much prefer masturbating to still photos of fully clothed women.

Can't wait to see @malelesbian try and top that.

 

[Mr. Tea]

"I would eat pussy" is absolutely priceless, too. Kind of sums up the whole feel of this thread.

 

[Leo]

any guesses on who @therefore i am really is?

 

[WashYourHands]

29 pages is commitment

 

[version]

 

[malelesbian]

Let me begin by saying that I do think Therefore I Am is a parody account created to troll me. My guess is that the parody post came from Third, because the jokes line up with some of Third's misconceptions about male lesbianism. More on that later. If truly an account was created to parody me, then this only shows how popular the male lesbian is. The male lesbian puts asses in seats, in show business terms. Maybe my book will get published. But who would publish it? Verso?

Basically what I'm saying is, if I got to prove I'm not a chatterbot, Third has to prove he didn't make a parody account to troll me. Because if he did, he really is in love with me. <3


Here's the thing: if the post in question is indeed a parody of me, its author has failed to understand that Butler is the philosopher of parody par excellence. Gender parody is a key concept in Butler. The male lesbian, as an archetype, as a character, is my parody of Butler's concept of gender parody. I self-parody the self in itself. Thus, I feel fine about a good parody post: it gives me a chance to clarify some truths about my view as most good humor contains some truth. (Read that last line again Third. We can't all be Mr. Warmth.) Male lesbianism has always been a social satire, a serious project defying the boundaries of serious work and satire.

You guys underestimate how must I like Zizek. I read 600 pages of his Hegel tome. He makes a great point in it: in Dreams of a Spirit Seer, Kant's parody of Swedenborg, therein is contained the truth of Kant's transcendental subject. Or as Bill Hicks more vulgarly put it: heavenly shrooms grow from cow poop. What is the truth in comedy?

i read about the male lesbians and i am broadly in support of it. i would eat pussy.

Who wouldn't? Probably Thirdform.

what i find interesting about pussy is that its something women have but men don't, but both men and women have anuses so cunnilingus is sapphic-oriented; men who eat pussy are therefore lesbians.

Pretty close actually. Originally, I coined the term "male lesbian" because I thought female lesbians eat each other's pussies without asking. In fact, actual female lesbians do not do this. I find this upsetting. The real point is that cunnilingus is non-phallic, you don't need a dick to do it.

the irony though is that even my dick is sapphic, i don't desire to penetrate as such, but to be enveloped and "devoured" by a pussy/vagina.

What makes this part so funny, is that it's technically true. The reality of the sex act supports a deconstructionist interpretation. Who is truly active and passive or receptive in the sex act? It's ambiguous. Both parties are both active and passive during the sex act. The heterosexual sex act in other words, is a phenomenon we can deconstruct, interpret in non-binary terms while acknowledging a pre-existent binary structure. Even heterosexual penetrative sex can be interpreted as both empowering and disempowering at the same time. Bet you didn't catch the reference. I mean, a man can be on top or woman can be on top, who is in control and has the power is contingent.

I'll give a better example: oral sex involves a passive recipient and an active participant, but both men and women can both give and receive head. Therefore, the active and passive roles are played out independent of each partner's gender.

"WHAT DOES EVERYBODY WANT?!"

fact is even some women these days are pro-patriarchy, but that just shows you have female phallus worshippers and male pussy eaters.

This part I actually agree with. Plenty of women do worship the phallus, which is not a sex act but actually a sinister behavior in which a person endorses phallocentrism, patriarchal supremacy.

And yes, the male lesbian's non-phallic sexuality mostly focuses on acts not involving the dick.

"WHAT DOES EVERYBODY NEED?"

I wonder what Padraig does to defy the phallus.

it's also known that eve was created from the uterus of adam---tsela is translated as rib by patriarchists/male supremacists and its also known jesus himself had female disciples who were written out of the scriptures.

Only Third would come up with something like this. I think the idea that Jesus had female disciples is pretty cool though.

i think the problem in these days society is that [wo]men loving women are looked down upon and the end goal is concentration camps for people who are sexually attracted to women.

Obviously no one is saying this.

The problem is not that people are oppressed for loving women, but that women in particular and the feminine perspective in general are under-represented. We don't know how to talk about femininity.

people literally get arrested for having sex with women, fired from their jobs etc. look at bill clinton, vince mcmahon etc whereas polanski is celebrated for anally(!) raping a minor and goethe gets praised despite being a pedophile himself.

Male lesbianism opposes sexual harrasment and pedophilia. By principle. Male lesbianism is fairly close to Jewish secular morality. My values are universal, I like to think.

the far-right these days promotes a pederastic ideal because of its aristocratic/ancient greece ["womb" of the western world] associations, the homo-erotic fascination with the taliban. the samurai of feudal japan,

Again, not too far from the truth. You ever notice how many far-right men (Matt Walsh, for example) are noted proponents of pedophilia?

nazis promote tsarist masculinism onto women in the form body-building fetishism (literally destroying and re-building a woman's body into that of the idealised male of michelangelo's david/ronnie coleman), the ss & ernest roehm.

See Ilsa She Wolf of the SS ahahahahaha

that's also why i'm suspicious of tomboys who are supported also by the far-right. i do think they basically support patriarchy, they don't really attack gender but re-enforce by acting like the adolescent males of ancient greece who are supported by the far-right, knowingly or otherwise.

I disagree. I love tomboys. Who else would a sissy (antonym of 'tomboy') like the male lesbian, marry? Some tomboys support the patriarchy just like some sissies do. But I maintain that some sissies and tomboys share a revolutionary unconditional romance.

aristocracy is also very opposed to vaginas since women are considered utilitarian.

I've always maintained that women are considered non-utilitarian, feminine love is unconditional.

nazi-style sex is 100% anti-vagina also, you never really hear nazis talking about eating pussy. lebensraum breeding farms instead. also one of the problems of porn is that it shows too much,

It's funny because maybe a lot of nazis ate pussy you don't know that. Note the anti-porn arguments against reminiscent of Third.

i much prefer masturbating to still photos of fully clothed women.

The dark truth: masturbation will only distract you from the suffering near essential to human life. (Love Nietzsche!)

but remember that it's speculated that george floyd did a porno by nazis who use that as a slur against him "vaginas are degenerate" is their cry. that's the real reason right-wingers are against porn and call sex with women degenerate,

This is just plain ridiculous. Whoever wrote this can't be serious.

Here's my test for Therefore I Am: define gender parody as Butler describes it in Gender Trouble. Show us you're serious.

 

[thirdform]

Let me begin by saying that I do think Therefore I Am is a parody account created to troll me. My guess is that the parody post came from Third, because the jokes line up with some of Third's misconceptions about male lesbianism. More on that later. If truly an account was created to parody me, then this only shows how popular the male lesbian is. The male lesbian puts asses in seats, in show business terms. Maybe my book will get published. But who would publish it? Verso?

If you want to believe that it is me parodying you, then sure you can. I refuse to acknowledge this account as being created by me, and were it so necessary, the administrators could prove this by exposing their email address, but again, I have no problem with you chasing a hopeless belief system you've invented in your head. So yes, the whole world knows it isn't me, but do shout that it is from the roof tops, my main man!

Here's the thing: if the post in question is indeed a parody of me, its author has failed to understand that Butler is the philosopher of parody par excellence. Gender parody is a key concept in Butler. The male lesbian, as an archetype, as a character, is my parody of Butler's concept of gender parody. I self-parody the self in itself. Thus, I feel fine about a good parody post: it gives me a chance to clarify some truths about my view as most good humor contains some truth. (Read that last line again Third. We can't all be Mr. Warmth.) Male lesbianism has always been a social satire, a serious project defying the boundaries of serious work and satire.

I'm not interested in touchy feely white people. Find other coconuts to sell that idea to, I'm too jaded. I'm 250 years old, after all. No, I much prefer to be the original Turanist baked beans cum murderer. Do your parents want to be my first test case? They can engage in baked beans foreplay and then I can enter the room with my 1000 kilogram lory of baked beans and then the burning sugary disgusting heinz baked beans can crush them both to death.

Dreams of a Spirit Seer, Kant's parody of Swedenborg, therein is contained the truth of Kant's transcendental subject. Or as Bill Hicks more vulgarly put it: heavenly shrooms grow from cow poop. What is the truth in comedy?

Ok but comedy only works when you can force the recipient to suspend disbelief. Bill Hicks was wrong, drugs in and of themselves don't make people interesting. In fact, if we take your criterion as the Alpha and Omega of engagement, then I have managed to make you suspend disbelief as you still treat me as an interlocutor.

Pretty close actually. Originally, I coined the term "male lesbian" because I thought female lesbians eat each other's pussies without asking. In fact, actual female lesbians do not do this.
I find this upsetting.

hahahahahaha! 🤣🤣🤣 Ok I retract my accusation of you being a chatbot. You're clearly 14 years old. go hang out with some female lesbians and continually get your heart broken, then come back here in 2028.

 

[malelesbian]

I'm not interested in touchy feely white people. Find other coconuts to sell that idea to, I'm too jaded. I'm 250 years old, after all. No, I much prefer to be the original Turanist baked beans cum murderer. Do your parents want to be my first test case? They can engage in baked beans foreplay and then I can enter the room with my 1000 kilogram lory of baked beans and then the burning sugary disgusting heinz baked beans can crush them both to death

This is just plain gibberish, but the part about baked beans is pretty funny, if unconfortably reminiscent of Doug TenNapel.

Ok but comedy only works when you can force the recipient to suspend disbelief. Bill Hicks was wrong, drugs in and of themselves don't make people interesting. In fact, if we take your criterion as the Alpha and Omega of engagement, then I have managed to make you suspend disbelief as you still treat me as an interlocutor.

I still don't understand why you care so much about suspension of disbelief. Do you mean to discuss the phenomenological reduction? It's not particularly relevant to the current discussion. Remind why I should care that you made me suspend disbelief?

Well, conservatives are right for the wrong reasons. They deny the capitalist mode of production will be succeeded. That doesn't mean they are wrong in calling all hitherto existing socialist as productivist and developing the forces of capitalism, although funnily enough most of them don't even ascend to this level, moaning about tyranny and dictatorship. So ironically the leftist and the conservative meet at the 'enlightened' (in scare quotes) political centre. Both become accomodationist and constitutive of each other. I am a communist, so not a leftist.

I remember reading Jeremy Waldron write that some communists resemble conservatives, but you're the first example of a conservative communist I've met.

You misunderstand what I say. The search for an absolute truth of being undergirding everything is the search for an existence separate from essence, and thereby a denial of the univocity of being. the sharpest line in Materialism is the bold assertion that there is something rather than nothing, not 'why is there something rather than nothing?'

Existence and essence are inseparable. Being is polyvocal, that's Irigaray's point. Fair point about materialism.

It's not that freedom requires God or an absolute truth as you think of it, but precisely that freedom taken as freedom is a real contradiction. If you wanted to talk about capitalist freedom, democratic freedom, freedom within communism, then we can. But freedom is not an ideal, or more correctly making it an ideal traps you in an insoluble contradiction where you talk about nothing.

I'm not even sure I disagree with this. To me freedom is always a matter of degrees and our actions are always overdetermined and bound up in the pre-existent power relations.

hahahahahaha! 🤣🤣🤣 Ok I retract my accusation of you being a chatbot. You're clearly 14 years old. go hang out with some female lesbians and continually get your heart broken, then come back here in 2028.

Female lesbians love male lesbians, I don't know what you're talking about.

Oh and for the record, I created the male lesbian when I was 14, in 2006.

 

[thirdform]

I remember reading Jeremy Waldron write that some communists resemble conservatives, but you're the first example of a conservative communist I've met.

I'm not a conservative. I'm a scientific communist, I.E: a Marxist, not a moral communist like the anarcho coms and various left wing orbiters. Actually my point was precisely that leftists and conservatives partake in a reciprocal antagonism and cannot see beyond each others noses. I hold both the right and the left in its contemporary manifestation (as the left today only defends capital) in an equal amount of contempt.

There was a time, of course, when the left of the bourgeoisie was a progressive force relative to feudalism, but now they merely decay and stagnate.

 

[thirdform]

Female lesbians love male lesbians, I don't know what you're talking about.

Of course they do. Then why was your heart broken when you found out that they don't eat pussy without asking?

 

[malelesbian]

I'm not a conservative. I'm a scientific communist, I.E: a Marxist, not a moral communist like the anarcho coms and various left wing orbiters. Actually my point was precisely that leftists and conservatives partake in a reciprocal antagonism and cannot see beyond each others noses.

That's actually a fine point, but I still see it in terms of left and right. I just see socialists as far leftists and fascists as the extreme far-right.

It's funny that you're a scientific communist becaust I'm a non-scientific democratic socialist. Gender lives at science's limits. I'm starting to think my critique of scientism applies to you. That would mean you are very vulnerable to my main argument against analytic philosophy.

 

[malelesbian]

Of course they do. Then why was your heart broken when you found out that they don't eat pussy without asking?

Because all women want their pussies ate without asking. Can you imagine being a woman who doesn't get her pussy ate without asking?

 

[thirdform]

That's actually a fine point, but I still see it in terms of left and right. I just see socialists as far leftists and fascists as the extreme far-right.

It's funny that you're a scientific communist becaust I'm a non-scientific democratic socialist. Gender lives at science's limits. I'm starting to think my critique of scientism applies to you. That would mean you are very vulnerable to my main argument against analytic philosophy.

Only if I accepted analytic philosophy, which I don't.

 

[thirdform]

Because all women want their pussies ate without asking. Can you imagine being a woman who doesn't get her pussy ate without asking?

Well clearly these lesbians don't want it. and I would wager neither would orthodox jews, traditionalist catholics, salafist muslims...

 

[Clinamenic]

This has gotta be one of the more surreal threads on Dissensus.