padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
yeah, I had a hard time believing that Josef would say that. thanks for clearing that up Zhao. no need to apologize.
& I note that it was, in fact, being used as a smear tactic...
Fascism!
- Thread starter josef k.
- Start date
yeah, I had a hard time believing that Josef would say that. thanks for clearing that up Zhao. no need to apologize.
& I note that it was, in fact, being used as a smear tactic...
Dr Awesome
Techsteppin'
You'll have to accept my delay in replying, I've been rather busy with real life drama llamas over the last few days.
What exactly are you getting at? All I said that one can't assume that either end of the political spectrum is really any better for it's subjects. Insinuating that you held Stalin as some kind of revered figure, or that you had any love for authoritarianism wasn't the aim.
I agree that it's dangerous indeed to simply label things as belonging to the "far" left or right, without defining either. However I think it's quite wrong to hold the line that there is no point of equating both ends of the political spectrum, or drawing comparisons between the two. I seem to be a bit more of a nihilist than you, but at the end of the day people suffer under both systems. Of course Pol Pot was different in practice to Franco, but the sad reality is that human misery occurred under each - there's little more relevant actuality than that in my mind.
You'll have to explain more about your so called smear tactic too, the 2 dimensional political continuum isn't perfect but it serves a useful purpose, and the those of "us" who commiserate about extremism must surely be justified?
(As for workers rights, it's not quite as clear cut as you make it out to be, quite a few important changes to employment law came about without anything very militant about them (Robert Owen, et al).)
Re: You're critique of Liberal Democracy being related to the outsourcing of hidden Nike sweatshops to the developing world, I think your beef there is with something called Globalisation, maybe you've heard of it? Suggesting that Liberal Democracies haven't protected workers rights because people suffer outside their boundaries is laughable. That's like holding car manufacturers accountable for car crashes. The cause and effect of the global economy is no more written into the foundations of democracy than it is any other political system (inbeforesomeonementionsCapitalismortheUSofA)
Anyway back to the topic at hand...
PS: You'll have to also forgive me for not reading though the entire 1100 posts in this thread.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well then why give us all a lecture on how the USSR was, like, really bad and stuff? What possible purpose does it serve to point out how terrible totalitarian communist regimes are when no-one here is defending them? Preaching -> choir.
See Tentative Andy's remark on the previous page, viz. that the discussion was more about far-right and far-left groups operating in modern liberal democracies than about the relative "merits" of Nazi Germany vs. the Soviet Union. You might have realised this if you'd read some of the thread instead of jumping straight in with the bombshell that Stalin was, in fact, a bit of a shit.
You're not going to win yourself any friends here posting facetious crap like that, mate. Or by exculpating developed economies that support exploitative labour practices in the third world. :slanted:
PS: You'll have to also forgive me for not reading though the entire 1100 posts in this thread.
But you could at least have scanned backed through the last couple of pages, couldn't you?
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D
droid
Guest
Bravo.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
yes, i've never heard of any auto manufacturer cutting corners on safety, i mean, the very notion is absurd
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Tea already pretty well nailed it, but: when someone deigns to inform me of my "sad misconception", goes on with a lengthy exposition about how Stalin was, wonder of wonders, kind of a dick, and then patronizingly suggests I read a (bad) book to correct said misconception I, yunno, connect the dots.
the worst part is that the smug condescension isn't even remotely warranted.
I like how you dismissively end with this, as if discussing what constitutes an extremist regime and how that relates to media coverage of an actual fascist event is something irrelevant to a thread entitled Fascism.
ps - you'll forgive me for not taking your ideas about "Globalisation" very seriously
version
Well-known member
Never knew about this,
www.theguardian.com
Recruited by MI5: the name's Mussolini. Benito Mussolini
Documents reveal Italian dictator got start in politics in 1917 with help of £100 weekly wage from MI5
www.theguardian.com
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Funny to think he'd been a Marxist just a few years earlier.Never knew about this,
Recruited by MI5: the name's Mussolini. Benito Mussolini
Documents reveal Italian dictator got start in politics in 1917 with help of £100 weekly wage from MI5
version
Well-known member
"Yesterday, the government of the far-right Meloni authorized this fascist march in Milan. Disgust and shame."
www.express.co.uk
Chaos in famous Italian city as huge far-Right protest takes over streets
About 1,500 fascist demonstrators mobbed the streets of one of Italy's most popular tourist cities.
www.express.co.uk
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
"Yesterday, the government of the far-right Meloni authorized this fascist march in Milan. Disgust and shame."
Chaos in famous Italian city as huge far-Right protest takes over streets
About 1,500 fascist demonstrators mobbed the streets of one of Italy's most popular tourist cities.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Every country is far right apart from those that have an open borders immigration policy. Which are none.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Every country is far right except the ones that don't permit mass rallies of neo-fascists.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Ironic that you're using the far right oil in the water trope.
Anyway, Italy has always had weekly far right demonstrations. It's called Serie A.
England would be in a better position to criticise once it stops hosting rallies of hundreds of thousands calling for Jewish genocide and waving the odd swastika to boot.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
I noticed you gave up on the open borders idea pretty quickly.
dilbert1
Well-known member
Not to downplay the distinction, but where do you think the fascists took many of the ideas they used to win workers over to their cause? “National socialism,” critique of capitalist bourgeois decadence, emergency dictatorship on behalf of the masses, collectivist critique of individualism. Fascism is a reactionary response to the same social crises of industrial capitalism addressed by socialists of that era. Without the Marxism of the Second and Third International, there would be no fascism.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Haha, no worries!