Well from what I've gathered Bailey is not too big on any form of collecting recorded music. that position i can understand more. but that's just basic zen really.
Beyond Soul.
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Well from what I've gathered Bailey is not too big on any form of collecting recorded music. that position i can understand more. but that's just basic zen really.
luka
Well-known member
Well that's the end of that conversation then isn't it!
Honestly times like thhis I wish my parents had instilled more class pride in me. by the time I fully clocked the middle class aspirational game (I.E: disowning nearly all of what goes for leftism) it was too late. I could have applied myself more to music in childhood. I think Bailey has a very good point here actually a point better than Watson's, imo.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Bailey vs Pharaoh. Head vs Heart. The intellectual approach to music is interesting but does it compel repeated listens? Does it paint pictures in your mind? Does it heal wounds? Does it speak to you in a deep and lasting way? Can you be passionate about it?
Maybe? Or maybe you don't care about any of that?
Kamasi is 2D. Pharaoh is 5. A dashiki does not a cosmic musician make. They have to be in touch with their heart & soul and be willing to offer it to those who'll listen. Getting out if their own way, essentially. Despite and in spite of the circumstances of their reality. More often than not there's struggle involved. Modern jazz musicians are too comfortable. Expensive schools. No character. Too imbued with hiphop sensibilities and trying to appear cool. Pharaoh just is.
Aretha too. And you can bet that if you saw footage of her concerts, a few nights in a row she'd be trying new things and keeping what works. She's a show woman after all. Like Prince getting his dance moves just right. Or like a comedian who hones his set over the course of a year. Taking bits out, incorporating new things that just happened in the moment. But all of that is arbitrary. We're not paying to see that, which is just decoration. We're paying to hear the songs and see the performer do what they do. How are you going to keep coming up with authentic adlibs if you're playing repeated shows? What happens if you become too self aware? Maybe just get on with it and give the crowd your best?
Maybe? Or maybe you don't care about any of that?
Kamasi is 2D. Pharaoh is 5. A dashiki does not a cosmic musician make. They have to be in touch with their heart & soul and be willing to offer it to those who'll listen. Getting out if their own way, essentially. Despite and in spite of the circumstances of their reality. More often than not there's struggle involved. Modern jazz musicians are too comfortable. Expensive schools. No character. Too imbued with hiphop sensibilities and trying to appear cool. Pharaoh just is.
Aretha too. And you can bet that if you saw footage of her concerts, a few nights in a row she'd be trying new things and keeping what works. She's a show woman after all. Like Prince getting his dance moves just right. Or like a comedian who hones his set over the course of a year. Taking bits out, incorporating new things that just happened in the moment. But all of that is arbitrary. We're not paying to see that, which is just decoration. We're paying to hear the songs and see the performer do what they do. How are you going to keep coming up with authentic adlibs if you're playing repeated shows? What happens if you become too self aware? Maybe just get on with it and give the crowd your best?
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
"if it feels good it's alright"
Soul isn't about analysis, petty criticism, it's about feeling.
Btw thirdform, it's interesting to me how you're anti sincerity and into pharaoh. Seems at odds.
im not anti-sincerity entirely. im anti-sincerity for the techno age. I don't understand why when music has crossed over to the industrial modality why on earth you would want to be sincere. I listen to a lot of sincere and yearning folk music after all. when we can use macines to make the music why shouldn't we reflect the claustrophobia and alienness of daily life in a high tech society. what's wrong with that? And also yes Pharoah is sincere but also at his best like all other jazz musicians, he realises that the forcefield is what matters more than himself the personality.
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Well this is it isn't it. I'm not anti-soul, I just think the best music of the past 30 years has gone beyond it. more into the realm of funk kinesthetics and brutal utilitarianism.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Escapism? Isn't that what kodwo eshun was getting at? I haven't read his books, but from what I've read of people talking about it, I think he's saying black embracing of sci fi etc was rooted in escapist fantasy.
Nothing. But there's always more than one way to deal with your reality.
This is what I meant by getting out of your own way. We're just channels for this stuff. Let it flow through.
luka
Well-known member
I like soul type of feelings just like the next man but they're impossible now aren't they. Inaccessible to contemporary musicians. We've become something else. That's all gone. Love. Soul. Spirit. Religiosity. Meaning. We've left it behind. It's not coming back. there's something else ahead.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
In the west what you say may be true but outside of the 1st world you can find feelings being felt without any self awareness. Music is a communal thing here. It's not about tribalism or identity. It's part of life. People here in .br all seem to know the words to all these classic songs. I have no idea when they're from but they feel older than now, and whenever someone breaks out into one of them, be it ata party or concert, everyone joins in and sings at the top of their lungs. It's a joy to behold. Carnival was pretty religious in some ways. Beautiful chaos & dark underbelly acknowledged, but people celebrating being alive. And really being alive. In the face of all kinds of terrible shit. That's soul.
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