labour + antisemitism

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
Can someone explain the crossover here?

Is it just an accusation based on opposition to Isreal? Or is there some sort of weird left-wing/jew-hating interface?
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
i'd expect tories to be antisemitic tbh and communism was of course linked with judaism in the eyes of the the nazis (probably to at least some degree insanely)
 

luka

Moderator
if you assume anti semitism is prevalent at all levels and in all sections of society then you divide all english people into two halves, one called labour and one called tories, it seems inevitable that each group will harbour anti semites.

it's just the right tends to support israel without question, the left not so much and anti-semites find refuge under a free palestine flag. im sure oliver will give you a fine grain historical run down with specific example etc though.

he is still bitter about oona king.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
i'd expect tories to be antisemitic tbh and communism was of course linked with judaism in the eyes of the the nazis (probably to at least some degree insanely)
As was capitalism, of course. A cornerstone of Nazi ideology was that both Marxism and capitalism were "Jewish conspiracies".
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
luka's right about it being found across society, although it does seem to be more prevalent among the extremes of right (as everyone knows) and left (which some people aren't so keen to acknowledge). Labour probably does get a disproportionate amount of stick on this score but it's perhaps inevitable given the dominance of right-wing media in this country and the fact that people expect a left-wing party to be more progressive about race and identity than a right-wing one. For all that, far too many people seem to think "But there are racist Tories too!" constitutes a reasonable response when some Momentum bellend tweets something ghastly about "Zionists" or whatever, when it clearly does not.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
This is also part of the lamentable rise of conspiracy theory based politics.

The roots of some of this lie with new-Labour's toadying up to "community leaders" for the Muslim vote in the 90s:
https://libcom.org/library/croissant-roses-new-labour-muslim-britain

Also social media.

My impression is that you would be far less likely to find anti-semites in the Labour Party than in the Tories and that the few examples which have been found have been exploited for political gain by opponents of Labour. But that is politics for you.

I say this as someone who is not particularly a fan of Corbyn or Labour.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
feel free to close the thread

i was being lazy instead of actually paying attention to the news


thanks for all your responses though
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
The Tories - and the Daily Mail - trying to outflank Labour (...or anyone else whomsoever) on the issue of race is as mind-boggling as Corbyn trying to outflank the Tories on relations with big business.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
The Tories - and the Daily Mail - trying to outflank Labour (...or anyone else whomsoever) on the issue of race is as mind-boggling as Corbyn trying to outflank the Tories on relations with big business.
That does appear to be happening now with Brexit though - he won cautious praise from the business community with the speech earlier this week.
 

thirdform

Active member
As was capitalism, of course. A cornerstone of Nazi ideology was that both Marxism and capitalism were "Jewish conspiracies".
Actually it was globalised finance capitalism they were against. they were fine with aryan industrial capitalism, and fine with enslaving slavs as an exploitable population.
 

thirdform

Active member
the sino-soviet derived anti-imperialist left has always had this dark side to it, and its red brown face has only become more pronounced after 1989.

You can see this in corbyn's foreign policy, straight out of a cold war textbook.

What John says about labour kowtowing to muslim leaders is true but their (the leaders and orgs) antisemitism is often recycled from christian far rightests, Europe and USA, has been since the 1950s and earlier. It's not simply anti-jewish prejudice, it's the modern european version of the eternal jew crudely adapted to middle eastern dynamics. This actually disadvantages 90% or more of muslims, and hampers secularised abstract critiques from organically emerging in these communities.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Actually it was globalised finance capitalism they were against. they were fine with aryan industrial capitalism, and fine with enslaving slavs as an exploitable population.
I'm talking about their rhetoric more than their actual policies. And there was a 'left wing' of the party that was anti-capitalist in the broad sense until it was purged in 1934.
 
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droid

Beast of Burden
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-03-01/labour-mp-anti-semitism-claims/

Smeeth has been one of the key figures in Labour arguing that under Jeremy Corbyn the party has faced a supposed “anti-semitism” crisis – and she has claimed to be one of the prime victims of anti-Jewish abuse inside Labour. She alleged in the British media that she had personally received some 25,000 abusive messages online, most of them via Twitter, in a few days in June 2016, during a spat over the Chakrabarti inquiry’s findings on anti-semitism and the Labour party.

There’s just one problem with her claim. There is no easy way to see how it could possibly be true – not by a very long shot indeed. A new study by the Community Security Trust identified only 15,000 anti-semitic tweets for the whole of the UK in a 12-month period that included June 2016. Either the study was grossly flawed, or Smeeth – how can I put this? – has an extremely poor grasp of maths.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Well it probably depends on how you search for evidence of anti-Semitism, doesn't it? "Shame Hitler didn't finish the job" or "Jews control the government" is pretty unambiguous, but most anti-Semites these days are a bit subtler than that and tend to use dog-whistle references to 'Zionists', 'Rothschilds' and so on rather than explicitly mentioning Jews as such.

Edit: in fact the report explicitly recognises this, I see.

Moreover, it just emphasises the point I've made before that anti-Semitism is the only kind of racial or cultural prejudice whereby many white leftists are instinctively suspicious of those making accusations of prejudice, rather than uncritically sympathetic. I'm trying to imagine how you'd respond if I were to post an article (by a white man, indeed!) purporting to debunk claims of racism made by, say, Sadiq Khan or Diane Abbott.
 
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vimothy

yurp
Ross Wolfe has some good stuff on the relationship between radicalism and anti-semitism:

Pierre Leroux, a rogue Saint-Simonian, authored an article in 1846 entitled “Jews, the Kings of the Epoch,” in which he espoused his antisemitic creed. “It is quite evident,” he wrote, “that when we speak of Jews we mean the Jewish spirit, the spirit of profit, of lucre, gain, the spirit of commerce, speculation — in a word, the banker spirit.” Leroux then dredged up the perennial charge of deicide, holding all Jews past and present collectively responsible for the murder of Christ. “Whence comes this frenzied attachment to earthly goods in the Jew, an attachment which has made his name a synonym for greed and avarice?” he asked. “Shall we say with the theologians that by a terrible predestination, the Jew has deserved to fail to recognize its Savior and Messiah, the Savior of all men, since it failed indeed to recognize Him and stupidly put Him to death? No doubt.” Eugen Dühring, the titular object of Engels’ ire in Anti-Dühring, was another famous socialist who was an avowed antisemite.

It is therefore unsurprising that the eminent Marxist August Bebel would quip, in the 1880s, that “antisemitism is the socialism of fools” [der Antisemitismus ist der Sozialismus der dummen Kerle].

Yesterday I published a translation of Il Lato Cattivo’s “Letter on Antisemitism,” from 2014, which covers much of this same ground. Along with this text, I included a few excerpts by the Duponts taken from the Insipidities blog. One line in particular captures the dynamic discussed here. “Within the arrangement of leftist awareness there exists a preconscious responsiveness to the subjective agency of Jews, which corresponds to the tendency to anthropomorphize institutional power as the outcome of the conspiracy of the powerful,” one states. “That is to say, even though individuals on the Left are personally opposed to antisemitism, their argumentation — the procedures, propositions, inferences, deductions — is structured to find archetypal personifications at the heart of what it opposes. One of these figures, perhaps the most discernible and significant, is the Jew.” Precisely this propensity to anthropomorphize a misanthropic system of domination leads to popular outcry against the “banksters,” those in charge of the Zionist Occupied Government (ZOG) or New World Order (NWO).
https://thecharnelhouse.org/2016/05/02/structural-antisemitism/
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Thanks Vim, the socialism of fools indeed.

I have a great affection for Monsieur Dupont and his tendency to irritate anarchists. His "Nihilist Communism" is a classic of anti-activism.
 
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