the socialism of fools

[sufi]

I really wish this thread wasn't named what it is, it's terrible optics if someone spots me on the tube or at work

I noticed a National Front Sticker on a lamppost up in N13 the other day, a vintage one with an 0181 phone number

(There were also some hand written stickers with a mobile number I should have noted it down and fed it to spammers), previously on the same path someone put up handwritten "free tommy robinson" stickers which i gleefully inserted "... blowjobs in jail from ..." in the middle, and noticed they'd been torn down soon after

So i took down this NF sticker and put it in my pocket
the next morning i pulled out my phone on the bus and
the sticker was stuck on the back of it
"terrible optics"

What would you prefer the title to be? i also complained and we could change it
(I think there's already an anti-semitism thread?)

 

[Corpsey]

Classic Barty.

Never had a job in his life

(Obviously not including the sexy kind)

 

[Mr. Tea]

Never had a job in his life

(Obviously not including the sexy kind)

And yet he mentioned something about typing up invoices the other day, I think?

Barty confirmed as a high-class gigolo.

 

[DannyL]

Could change it to "the socialism of fools" perhaps as that's literally the context under discussion.

 

[luka]

I know soneone on here said any mention of the Israel lobby is racist end of story. Is that true?

 

[luka]

It may be that Corbyn thinks his support for the Palestinian cause is what is behind all this but he doesn't feel he can blurt out "it's those fucking zionists and their money"

 

[luka]

Another angle is that he might secretly think that anti semitism is actually more of a vote winner than anti anti semitism.

 

[luka]

It may be that Corbyn thinks his support for the Palestinian cause is what is behind all this but he doesn't feel he can blurt out "it's those fucking zionists and their money"

My gut instinct not having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever and operating from a state of total and shameful ignorance is that this is what he thinks.

That anyone in his position supporting the righteous Palestinian cause will be subject to the whole range of dirty tricks assisted by Zionists in high places.

And if I'm right then that attitude alone could very easily make him disregard very valid warning signs in the party as a whole and also within his own heart.

 

[sadmanbarty]

 

[DannyL]

My gut instinct not having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever and operating from a state of total and shameful ignorance is that this is what he thinks.

That anyone in his position supporting the righteous Palestinian cause will be subject to the whole range of dirty tricks assisted by Zionists in high places.

And if I'm right then that attitude alone could very easily make him disregard very valid warning signs in the party as a whole and also within his own heart.

This is the line you get from a lot of his supporters. It must be Israel, up to their tricks. In itself, without any evidence, that's pretty much anti-semitic conspiracy theorising. Of course, people don't like being told this on social media so that's how the bun fight tends to start and escalate. The result is the Labour Party essentially fucking off a whole community's perceptions.

It strikes me this must on some level be done to Corbyn's political mode of operating? You have to be proper intransigent and used to the double down under criticism to have his voting record.

 

[version]

To play devil's advocate, I can't imagine Israel sitting idly by if there's a serious chance a pro-Palestine candidate could become PM or POTUS. The same goes for any other nation who feels a particular candidate threatens their interests. Isn't that why the Russians supposedly interfered in the US? Because Clinton was a threat to them?

 

[luka]

Well obviously there is an Israel lobby and it exists partly to stop the leaders of major western economies from holding positions hostile to Israeli interests. That much is a given.

 

[luka]

Politics doesn't stop at national borders.

 

[luka]

Once Corbyn loses you can imagine an explosion of anti semitic feeling. "They stopped us getting our socialist utopia"

 

[droid]

This is the line you get from a lot of his supporters. It must be Israel, up to their tricks. In itself, without any evidence, that's pretty much anti-semitic conspiracy theorising. Of course, people don't like being told this on social media so that's how the bun fight tends to start and escalate. The result is the Labour Party essentially fucking off a whole community's perceptions.

It strikes me this must on some level be done to Corbyn's political mode of operating? You have to be proper intransigent and used to the double down under criticism to have his voting record.

 

[Mr. Tea]

It's worth pointing out that there is a Palestinian lobby as well, of course - in fact there's an outside chance one of its leading lights could be our next PM.

Naturally it doesn't have anything like the cash at its disposal that the Israel lobby does, but it certainly beats it in terms of cultural capital - it's got virtually all of academia on its side, plus a wide range of celebrities, generally on the younger/cooler side.

 

[luka]

It's worth pointing out that there is a Palestinian lobby as well, of course - in fact there's an outside chance one of its leading lights could be our next PM.

Naturally it doesn't have anything like the cash at its disposal that the Israel lobby does, but it certainly beats it in terms of cultural capital - it's got virtually all of academia on its side, plus a wide range of celebrities, generally on the younger/cooler side.

We love those plucky rock throwing rapscallions!

 

[Mr. Tea]

My gut instinct not having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever and operating from a state of total and shameful ignorance is that this is what he thinks.

That anyone in his position supporting the righteous Palestinian cause will be subject to the whole range of dirty tricks assisted by Zionists in high places.

And if I'm right then that attitude alone could very easily make him disregard very valid warning signs in the party as a whole and also within his own heart.

This sounds reasonable. I don't for a moment think Corbyn actually hates Jews. Or at least, I believe that he sincerely believes he doesn't hate Jews. But if you're going to calibrate your entire moral worldview around support for Palestine and opposition to Israel, then as you [luka] point out, it could easily blind you to some less wholesome currents in those you view as being on your side.

 

[Mr. Tea]

We love those plucky rock throwing rapscallions!

Well it's impossible not to, isn't it? I mean you'd have to have a heart of stone to look at those photos of kids with slingshots squaring up against soldiers in tanks and fail to sympathise very much with one side against the other.

 

[version]

Once Corbyn loses you can imagine an explosion of anti semitic feeling. "They stopped us getting our socialist utopia"

Norman Finkelstein made this argument a while back. He said the Jewish people are being used as a spearhead by the establishment and as a result could end up taking most of the heat for a Corbyn loss.