the socialism of fools

[Murphy]

Agree to agree/disagree. Pretty sure Foot was touted as KBG & Kinnock was portrayed as unfit to run an economy. Old sabotage tactics. MI5 & MI6 were all over both too, not insignificant players.

Again, if the coherence within Labour’s official Brexit policy had been clearer, Corbyn could have faired better. He has to accept some responsibility here, given how long the Brexit debacle rumbled on for. Senior Labour figures in interview couldn’t communicate this problem clearly, until the remain, revoke & reform position yielded some kind of logic. Then the anti semitism hernia strangulated.

I voted for him, gutted as fuck to have the current govt, they HAD to go last election. Now Coronavirus is exposing even more political ineptitude & failures in planning. Happy days.

@droid - fuck all personal, new member here just chewing the fat with hindsight.

 

[droid]

Yeah, I agree. He could have done a lot better in a bunch of different areas, and the last election campaign was a disaster, but I do wonder if anyone could have overcome the level of structural opposition and dirty tricks he faced.

 

[thirdform]

Yeah, I agree. He could have done a lot better in a bunch of different areas, and the last election campaign was a disaster, but I do wonder if anyone could have overcome the level of structural opposition and dirty tricks he faced.

I disagree. Corbyn and Sanders, no matter how radical they were, ultimately wanted to accommodate the party. Trump didn't.

 

[Leo]

good point about trump...he made token gestures to the GOP (picking pence as vp, for example) but basically steamrolled the party, realizing his popularity electrified voters more than any Mitch McConnnell position paper.

in today's world, a reality TV star crushes a politician, no question.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The Guardian Rejects Steve Bell Cartoon – Update: Guardian Ends Bell Relationship - The Daily Cartoonist

The Guardian has apparently declined to publish a depiction of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu by cartoonist Steve Bell, reportedly telling him the artwork perpetuated an anti-Semitic trope. The London Press Gazette reports on Steve Bell's description of what happened and Bell's...

www.dailycartoonist.com

It's just as well Bell didn't make Bibi's nose (quite) as big as the earlier cartoonist did Johnson's, is all I can say.

 

[versh]

Chris Williamson being a fucking idiot.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Chris Williamson being a fucking idiot.

God, he really is. Not a peep out of his lot while Russia routinely did the same thing in Chechnya/Georgia/Syria/Ukraine, of course. And it's such a risk-free hardman pose, isn't it? If he feels that strongly about it he should go over there and sign up with the Al-Qassam Brigades as a volunteer.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Couldn't ask for a more succinct demonstration of how the American far right hates Jews but loves Israel:



(That's a heavily Photoshopped George Soros, btw.)

 

[Mr. Tea]

French march against antisemitism shakes up far right and far left

Far-right leader Marine Le Pen plans to rally alongside major political parties but the far left refuses.

www.bbc.co.uk

On Sunday afternoon thousands of people are expected to heed a call from the Speakers of the two houses of parliament to show their support for French "Republican" values and their rejection of antisemitism - this in the face of a steep rise in antisemitic actions since 7 October.

Among the first to announce their presence were Marine Le Pen, three-times presidential candidate for the National Rally (formerly the National Front), and the party's young president, Jordan Bardella.

Almost simultaneously came a rejoinder from their counterpart on the far left, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, irascible leader of France Unbowed (LFI). His party would not be attending, he tweeted, because the march was a "rendezvous for unconditional supporters of the massacre [of Gazans]".

 

[versh]

This whole thing could put a dent in the hopes of finally unseating the Tories. There's a lot of anger around the protests in London and seemingly more than enough ammo for the right to fall back on the antisemitism line re: the left and Labour, given the clips and images of people in Hamas headbands and carrying antisemitic signs.

Mind you, Starmer's done his best to distance himself from Corbyn/Momentum and avoid being drawn into anything too messy with his own party, so perhaps it'll play in his favour and allow him to make an even stronger break from the alleged antisemitic elements.

Whatever happens, it's an absolute tightrope and I think people supporting Palestine would be wise to make a firm show of publicly rejecting the antisemitic pockets of the various protests and movements. Obviously there's the issue of accusations of antisemitism being used to shutdown criticism of Israel and smear whole protests, but I saw one person carrying a sign with an Israeli snake strangling the world and another with a bloodied amalgamation of the swastika and Star of David. You can't have that shit.

 

[versh]

Jon Lansman – the founder of the grassroots movement Momentum – said he and others had come to feel alienated by Britain’s main pro-Palestinian campaign and revealed he had recently joined the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM), the party’s oldest Jewish affiliate and one that was highly critical of Corbyn.

Lansman also challenged Starmer to sign a new joint letter from a range of Jewish and Arab social justice groups and others calling for a “a stable ceasefire” between Israel and Palestine, along with a commitment to negotiations, mutual recognition of rights to self-determination, an end to settler violence and the harming of innocent civilians.

guardian.com/politics/2023/nov/12/momentum-founder-jon-lansman-says-leftwingers-in-denial-about-pro-palestinian-slogans

 

[luka]

My feeling is that more people dislike Jews than dislike antisemites so it shouldn't be too big a problem electorally.

 

[DannyL]

This whole thing could put a dent in the hopes of finally unseating the Tories. There's a lot of anger around the protests in London and seemingly more than enough ammo for the right to fall back on the antisemitism line re: the left and Labour, given the clips and images of people in Hamas headbands and carrying antisemitic signs.

Mind you, Starmer's done his best to distance himself from Corbyn/Momentum and avoid being drawn into anything too messy with his own party, so perhaps it'll play in his favour and allow him to make an even stronger break from the alleged antisemitic elements.

Whatever happens, it's an absolute tightrope and I think people supporting Palestine would be wise to make a firm show of publicly rejecting the antisemitic pockets of the various protests and movements. Obviously there's the issue of accusations of antisemitism being used to shutdown criticism of Israel and smear whole protests, but I saw one person carrying a sign with an Israeli snake strangling the world and another with a bloodied amalgamation of the swastika and Star of David. You can't have that shit.

I was there yesterday and I don't think saw one sign like that though. Those people are a very small minority and as usually happens in these events, they'll be used to damn the others or to somehow refuse engagement with the real topics being discussed.

 

[DannyL]

 

[DannyL]

One interesting but unsurprising thing about yesterday was the amount of Muslim families on show. Didn't hear anything about that in the handwringing this morning.

 

[Mr. Tea]

This whole thing could put a dent in the hopes of finally unseating the Tories. There's a lot of anger around the protests in London and seemingly more than enough ammo for the right to fall back on the antisemitism line re: the left and Labour, given the clips and images of people in Hamas headbands and carrying antisemitic signs.

Mind you, Starmer's done his best to distance himself from Corbyn/Momentum and avoid being drawn into anything too messy with his own party, so perhaps it'll play in his favour and allow him to make an even stronger break from the alleged antisemitic elements.

It could have gone wrong in two ways for Labour - people on one side seeing Labour MPs and councillors supporting the protests and assuming things have basically not changed since the Corbyn era, and on the other, deciding to sit out the next election on the basis that Starmer's position isn't significantly different from Sunak's, but for whatever reason Labour's lead has if anything had a small boost since early October:

Whatever happens, it's an absolute tightrope and I think people supporting Palestine would be wise to make a firm show of publicly rejecting the antisemitic pockets of the various protests and movements. Obviously there's the issue of accusations of antisemitism being used to shutdown criticism of Israel and smear whole protests, but I saw one person carrying a sign with an Israeli snake strangling the world and another with a bloodied amalgamation of the swastika and Star of David. You can't have that shit.

Absolutely. Even if most people on the march don't agree with those sentiments, the very fact that that sort of imagery is tolerated is a massive problem for the movement, because they're basically doing their opponents' jobs for them.

 

[Mr. Tea]

My feeling is that more people dislike Jews than dislike antisemites so it shouldn't be too big a problem electorally.

Classic "I hear a lot of people saying..." post.

 

[luka]

That's my feeling

 

[entertainment]

tense times huh