the socialism of fools

[Mr. Tea]

And when all is said and done, they are obviously still vastly preferable to the Tories. I appreciate that this is small comfort to progressive Jews who've been put in this awful position. Personally I would still like to see a Labour victory, as unlikely as it looks; but I am aware that there are good progressive people with justified reasons for being afraid of that outcome.

And it's depressing that this situation could have been avoided three years ago if Labour members had listened to Jews instead of talking over them, accusing them of being in a sinister conspiracy or waving open letters by Michael Rosen in their faces and screaming "See? SEE?????"

 

[luka]

I think you're right Tea

 

[luka]

Good on you.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Well that doesn't happen very often!

I think, deep down, we're on the same team more often that we're not.

 

[catalog]

I think it's a bit like this recent football thing, the man city guy with Fred.

I've read a few of the comments highlighted in the report. It's disgusting stuff, awful, must really upset the people who it is directed against. And there's no excuse. Agree also that it should have been dealt with better.

But at the same time, I don't know if it's as damaging as other forms of more covert racism. As in, I think it comes from a place of ignorance rather than hatred. Or perhaps I hope that.

Probably said too much, someone's gonna tell me I've been red pilled again. I can explain more about this position though

 

[other_life]

I am the Jews.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I am the Jews.

I'm now picturing you as Judge Dredd in a yarmulke.

 

[DannyL]

Catalog: I wouldn't go there, personally. I can get where you are coming from I guess but it's not a position that's going to benefit for explication.

The racism is disgusting and horrible but what I find really stinks is the way it's abetted by the leadership. They broke the complaints system deliberately to cover up for their mates, and then lied about, systematically.

I really do not want five years of a Johnson premiership but I won't be sad if Corbyn loses badly, because of this.

 

[DannyL]

I should add - I think one of the things that happens here is people conflate anti-semitism with Corbyn's personal bigotry.

Rejecting the latter means they somehow feel entitled to reject the former.

 

[subvert47]

what I find really stinks is the way it's abetted by the leadership. They broke the complaints system deliberately to cover up for their mates, and then lied about, systematically.

Bullshit.

 

[DannyL]

Read the Adam Wagner thread linked above, about the JVL submission. The evidence is there in B&W.

 

[DannyL]

And this is what the Panorama documentary was about - Labour had whistleblowers because the LOTO kept on interfering with the process, to protect their friends. That's why it took forever for any of these suspensions to happen, and why they were reneged on so many cases.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Bullshit.

The tragedy is that, for all that you love Corbyn, you are quite literally part of the problem of why he's failing.

 

[subvert47]

The tragedy is that, for all that you love Corbyn, you are quite literally part of the problem of why he's failing.

Bullshit.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Bullshit.

Great argument. Nuanced, well informed, impassioned. Bound to win over floating voters.

 

[luka]

Bit late for arguments. That's all over with now.

 

[luka]

Either there's a miracle or we find out exactly what the Boris faction is planning for Britain. I don't think it's anything nice but hopefully my most lurid nightmare fantasies aren't lived up to.

 

[luka]

If labour loses there will be reasons why they lost. Lots and lots of interelated reasons. Subvert is not going to be one of the most important of them. I'd say subvert will be a negligible factor in any labour loss today.

More important will be brexit, a hostile media, the rightward leanings of the British public, plausibly some advantage in online campaigning and data harvesting, Corbyn being a member of the IRA/Hamas, immigration, mass insanity.

 

[droid]

Just a small note to say that Ive known S47 for over 15 years, and of everyone Ive ever met online he has been consistently measured and correct in his opinions and behaviour and is perhaps the person I most respect on the internet.

For all of your sakes I hope the election goes well today, and also, kudos to Tea for his campaigning.

 

[DannyL]

If labour loses there will be reasons why they lost. Lots and lots of interelated reasons. Subvert is not going to be one of the most important of them. I'd say subvert will be a negligible factor in any labour loss today.

More important will be brexit, a hostile media, the rightward leanings of the British public, plausibly some advantage in online campaigning and data harvesting, Corbyn being a member of the IRA/Hamas, immigration, mass insanity.

On that note, I think the antisemitism stuff won't make much of an impact outside of Jewish areas. a) It doesn't cut through, its too counter-intuitive (although it isn't simply "bullshit") but more importantly b) if anti-racism is driving your vote, you should do everything you can to defeat Boris. The Tories are obviously balls deep in the worst kinds of immigrant hatred, Islamophobia, nationalism and every other racism one could name.