Grime-where did it all go wrong?

bruno

est malade
scarboi said:
No, but maybe as an extension of the sound system culture that started in Jamaica and took two different forms, one in the UK with hardcore and the other in New York with hiphop.

Maybe, its still a strange little mutant of sound as far as I'm concerned.


And I like strange mutants.
you can say 'it's an extension of this and that' about anything. the reality is that grime is not hip hop, there is a reason why it got a name in the first place.
 
scarboi said:
Yeah well, it isn't always like that.

Sometimes freestyle battles don't lead to random bullshit.

That was the whole fucking point of hiphop to begin with, to be able to prove your superiority without resorting to violence! Thats why rival crews would breakdance, to show off!


Do I even have to bring up Afrika Bambataa here?

I was talking to a guy Kevin something or other, made a movie called "art of rhyme" and he said most intercrew freestyle ciphers ended in violence just like 8 mile but he didn't put it in his movie...

...and please whatever high hopes Afrika Bam had with his zulu nation went out the door with NWA. For a start Africans in Africa don't even like black americans and would just as soon jack em for their shoes as look at em

you talk about prove your superiority which is exactly the problem. Thinking you got it over someone by insulting them to the point where they can't answer back proves nothing but make a sucker and you equal and it most certainly doesn't foster unity or harmony in hiphop...

IMHO ;)
 

SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
ten reasons why grime holds my interest in 2006:

1. Skepta - Duppy
2. Young Dot - Bazooka Rmx EP
3. JME - 96 Bars of Revenge
4. Footsie - Morbid
5. Wiley - You're Not Real
6. Ruff Sqwad - Old School w. Ghetto + Mercston
7. Mondie + Flirta - Step Your Game Up
8. Scorcher - My Diary
9. President T + Bossman - Man In Meridian
10. J Sweet - Burst

I agree with Poison Dart that many of those forecasting the doom of the scene are premature. It's true that things may be slowing down or there's less of a sense of hyperbolic possibility but with this many good records coming out (all are released except the scorcher) I think the scene is still very vital and interesting. Also it's very important to note that the scene is in a moment of transition with people coming to grips with the fact that no one is getting a major deal and figuring out what to do with that. I think in the next year we will see a raft of independent albums and mixtapes which will expand the possibilities of the scene, reveal new talents and show a new way forward.

For those complaining about the loss of experimentalism in the scene I think one reason for that may be the success of tunes like Pow, Murckle Man and the other shouty club bangers we've had in the past year. People have decided that to have a strong single they need a tune for people to shout along with and mosh to in the club, which has scaled back the weirdness factor, esp. with regard to beat patterns. I think with a new focus on mixtapes and longer formats it's possible that more of that, along with more introspective and melodic tunes, will be released.

I've seen this backlash coming for a while and have been worried about it. It's an inevitable product of all the novelty hyping which is the main mode of journalism these days. I feel it can be a very damaging cycle, something becomes trendy, hipsters and journalists jump on it, call it 'The Next Big Thing', generate a huge level of anticipation and expectation and then when for whatever reason that fails to materialise the entire scene is discarded and labeled 'last years thing'. Ideally the relationship between journalism and undergrounds should be a symbiotic mutually beneficial one but often it feels consumptive and parasitic, an extension of contemporary disposable consumer culture. I talked to someone at Vice in Berlin about a piece for their magazine and he said 'but our friend in London told us Grime was dead' as he shook in his boots in fear that he might print an article about a 'dead' movement. Last years fair weather friends begin slamming doors in people's faces now that they've consumed the momentary novelty credibility they were interested in.
 

Woebot

Administrator
Staff member
throughsilver said:
That reminds me, actually. Is there a list (or could anyone make one) of essential Grime cuts for people who know very little about it, but are interested, like me?

I got the Wire Primer; is there anything essential post-that? I've liked the Ruff Sqwad I've heard.

hey mate. i like your blog. email me and i'll fix you up.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
We need a funky grime revolution!

I agree but didn't Kano try it?

If the scene is stangnating, maybe it's bcause the sales aren't there. Have you seen how easy it is to d/l heaps of grime? It's shocking.
 
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carmen

 
2stepfan said:
If the scene is stangnating, maybe it's bcause the sales aren't there. Have you seen how easy it is to d/l heaps of grime? It's shocking.

nothing's shocking. the 'underground' mp3 release groups often dont rip the mix CDs at all or until weeks after theyve gone retail. and none of them are appearing at all on 'aboveground' torrent sites like tpb/mininova. if you are talking about emule or DC, no thanks, i dont want to spend 3 days chatting in some forum so that the 14 year old 'admin' will give me download access..and as for crappy vinyl rips of unmixed 12"s...no thanks - listening to these out of the context of MCing is a clinical operation at best. grime will have truly 'arrived' (in the 'we dont need major-labels' sense) when it arrives on the under/above download arenas 3 days before its available in shops (or available in shops besides rhythm division and a small handful of others for that matter). i reckon this should happen within the next 6 to 12 months..

i cant really agree with anything about downhill or gone wrong either. the levels are still rising.
 

satanmcnugget

Well-known member
Bruno,

it may as well be

this is what we meant about the same tired old narratives being played out...ohhhhm, the streets are sooooooo hard, and im such a hard bloke, etc...how tired and banal is that?...grime may have been different from hip-hop back in the day, but it's just the same shit with a slightly different smell nowadays

as someone (Stevie Nicked? Jess Harwell??) said, it sure is a far cry from its gay disco roots...just wanna-be hard-ass batty-bashing idiocy...if i want that, ill just turn on my radio

nothing happening here folks, let's move along now before we all fall asleep
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
All I'm saying is Limewire has pretty much every artist and release I'd want there for the taking.

Plus grime artists often complain of their sales being destroyed by downloading.
 
lack of sales is a huge problem at the mo...

I for one know that in the scene there is a huge cash drought affecting everyone....and I mean everybody...
 

Fiddy

Well-known member
Grime isn't dead but you have to sift through weeds to find the flowers... regardless there are a number of reasons why things have 'gone wrong'.
1. It isn't deemed new anymore, that initital excitement has been lost
2. Listeners who feel this way seem to have some kind of expectation as to what music should be made, grime is still so young as a genre that there's a number of styles evolving. While I personally don't like a lot of the chilled stuff (such tracks on Wiley's 2nd Phaze included) other people do.
3. We could argue that an artist is supposed to make music for themselves/it's a creative process. Now some people are doing that and the results haven't gone down as well as when they've made something for a crowd or simply cause they thought it would be big on road. There are also the people trying to make a track because they think it will be a hit but is not going to impress on their original fanbase, that's up to them though. Without Nite, Nite would Kano's album have gone gold? I know what I would have done.
4. It's hard to make P's. You need money to press up a vinyl and while you can still make a return, it's not what it used to be. And where there are no club nights, bedroom DJ's aren't investing in vinyl they'll not even get to play down the youth club.
5. Again club nights. It's not happening partially down to clubs themselves and local authorities, but also because the artists themselves can be greedy, lazy i.e. not turn up and let us not forget the chance that some twats gonna turn up and wreck the event. Sometimes the performers themselves are causing trouble and we can complain all we like but at the end of the day it's STREET music.
6. Downloading. Do you think more than 15,000 people own Run The Road? How many people have an extensive MP3 catalogue of tunes that probably only came out on limited vinyl runs?
7. The business. The scene should have known from day one they were never going to go down the major route but there's still, five years on, a major lack of inititive. There are signs of improvement and great things to come but you need the majority operating like this, not the minority.
8. Lack of new talent. Youngers are pretty waste on the whole, give them some time perhaps. It's a shame that they haven't grasped fact to make an impact they're gonna have to come better than the current top boys but judging by RWD forums, the youngers are impressing the kids.
9. And look how many MCs are still using their one 8 bar that get's a reload three years from when it was penned? Lack of inspiration? Lack of talent? Could just be these MC's, many of whom have kids, operate on road or are getting older, thought fuck it. Can't blame them, it just differentiates them from the guys who are genuinely in it for the love of music (be they better or worse). Likewise, bar Boy Better Know and a few others, their stage shows are wack.
10. DJ's are kinda poop, not many showcasing any level of turntable expertise. If grime boasted some superstar DJ's who didn't even use/need an MC, could see a massive change in the clubbing side of things.
 
in terms of no. 10 ('cos I have a long reply for this

entire thread)...Rossi B & Luca - the scratching and mixing still gets me everytime and they know the power of CORRECT record selection. DJ Gumma out of 4N4MAT is good at that too - playing dupstep alongside oldskool, nuskool and garage/nukg/grime stuff.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
whatever my reservations about the state of grime, whenever i hear Newhams and Dizzee those reservations disappear. "go ahead take a look at it..."
 

Coxy

Member
"ten reasons why grime holds my interest in 2006:

1. Skepta - Duppy"


that's your problem. sounds like fucking bassline garage from five years ago with the tiniest of twists, even has creed on it for gawds sake, then you get some retard vomiting 'tiger, tiger' over and over and he can't even get on the beat. when all you get out of MCs is 8-bars, what's to hold anyone's interest? it was exciting when it broke cos it was knew. people seem to think that'll hold true forever. comparing it to hip-hop in terms of the MCs is a joke...
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
Coxy said:
"ten reasons why grime holds my interest in 2006:

1. Skepta - Duppy"


that's your problem. sounds like fucking bassline garage from five years ago with the tiniest of twists, even has creed on it for gawds sake, then you get some retard vomiting 'tiger, tiger' over and over and he can't even get on the beat. when all you get out of MCs is 8-bars, what's to hold anyone's interest? it was exciting when it broke cos it was knew. people seem to think that'll hold true forever. comparing it to hip-hop in terms of the MCs is a joke...

I can see what you are saying there but i think its overstating the matter slightly. I DJed a house party last night and played duppy and people were loving it. Due to its somewhat basic lyrical content it may not sound great listening sat in your bedroom or living room, but over a loud system when you can't really hear the lyrics anyway its great. One guy specifically requested the tune (that must say something that the one grime tune someone had heard of was duppy?) and when i said to another guy that i liked it but the lyrics were a bit rubbish he just replied that the lyrics didn't really matter at that time. And it is party music isn't it, you can see where he was coming from.

And Wiley has far more than just 8 bars!
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
Coxy said:
then you get some retard vomiting 'tiger, tiger' over and over ...

that bar is a grime classic, pure fire. ask Logan: those bars are the reload point for that tune in raves. it is interesting though how skepta and ruff sqwad ft ghetto are re-forging some kind of link with old school garage.
 

Coxy

Member
I know it's Wiley ffs. And to be honest he's one of the few I respect involved in grime, though I'm not pretending to be all-knowing. In my opinion that rhyme sounds lame, but no matter.

The point about Duppy isn't the quality of tune, it's the style. I rate it, it's obviously got a hook that sticks, but if that's your no.1 reason for saying grime is going somewhere... shame.

Every scene needs to a) originate and evolve and/or b) have a firm base which keeps the scene solid. Grime never really had b), i.e. big raves, big DJs, and they're losing their big station (rinse). Logan is doing his thing for sure mind.

The reason, as someone said, that house is everywhere again is that it will always have the foundations so doesn't need to really evolve quickly. Grime lacks that and has previously made do with just evolving and being exciting in its originality, when that stops... there's nothing there to catch it. So people move on...
 
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