Ragga Jungle

D

droid

Guest
ripley said:
ok, thanks. And there was explicit antagonism between the ragga scene and the jungle scene? INteresting.. Anyone care to say more about that?

My experience in the US was that the dancehall scene stayed almost totally separate from the jungle/electronic dance music scene. Considering dancehall's relatively smaller popularity here (and proportionately smaller direct Jamaican influence on American culture), I wasn't even aware of an overlap at all, enough to cause hostility, or even awareness of the other scene (except maybe a little bit of crossover in NY). Perhaps it was different other parts of the US, but in general my impression was the US Jungle scene was much much whiter than in the UK I think..

so what was the animosity about in the UK, Martin (anyone)?
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Hardcore was heading towards jungle via ragga as early as 91, but things really transformed in 93 with the more London-centric, darker 'blacker' sound, alienating a lot of ravers and producers.

Things really hit the fan in 94 when incredible hit the charts twice, peaking at number 8 in September (Original Nuttah got to 39 a month later!), this was followed by General Levy getting a lot of press apparently claiming to 'King of the Jungle', pissing off a lot of producers and labels who were already moving in a more 'intelligent' direction and thought the ragga kids were fucking up their scene with bad publicity and cheap cash in tunes (Jet Star, fashion and Greensleeves had gotten in on the scene by then).

What followed has been the subject of much discussion and rumour, but the story goes that a bunch of unnamed producers and label owners formed the legendary Jungle 'committee', and decided that ragga was a no go. Cue ragga jungle events and artists being boycotted, ragga jungle artists being cut out of photos and documentaries and (allegedly) DJ Rap getting death threats warning her not to play certain tunes or at certain events.

There was also some anti-jungle feeling on the ragga side of things with 'Jungle Bungle' - "One bag of noise and a whole heap a sample/That's something my ear holes can't handle... Starkey Banton nah DJ pon no Jungle", but Tenor Flys' reply on 'Dont dis the jungle' - "jungle put food on nuff DJs plate" was the standard pragmatic response from most dancehall DJs and labels.

John's summarised it pretty well there actually... the Shut Up and Dance interview in Woofah 2 touches on this topic as well.
ragga is just a british way of saying modern dancehall it's not a subgenre really.
english people refer to dancehall fans as raggas or raggamuffins.
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Hmm. not sure I agree with that. This has been discussed here and few other places before, so at the risk of repeating myself, heres my (non UK resident) take on the term:

Id say ragga is a subset of dancehall. Personally Id use it to describe late 80s/early 90s stuff, after the digital revolution and before dancehall settled into the bomp-bomp-tsch beat of a lot of late 90s (and beyond) material.

I think its fair to say that its more of a description of DJ style and attitude than production though. Daddy Freddy obviously, Lt. Stitchie, Ninja, Mackerel, Tiger, Flourgon, Sweetie Irie, Jigsy King, Joseph Stepper - that kinda sound.
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Though I think its to fair to say that boundaries are blurred to say the least.
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
benjybars said:
can people please write more about ragga jungle?!?!


been reading through the tech-step thread and found it really interesting cos i don't really know anything about the different d&b sub-genres.... i want stuff like that but about ragga jungle..


give me labels, stories, raves etc..
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the impression i get is that ragga jungle (the less obvious stuff anyway) is generally a lot more difficult to track than tech-step and other post-96 sounds.. releases very scatty, hundreds of versions of tunes pressed up on different labels in different quantities in different places all worth different amounts to collectors and credited to different people..
 
D

droid

Guest
UFO over easy said:
the impression i get is that ragga jungle (the less obvious stuff anyway) is generally a lot more difficult to track than tech-step and other post-96 sounds.. releases very scatty, hundreds of versions of tunes pressed up on different labels in different quantities in different places all worth different amounts to collectors and credited to different people..
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Uh Huh. And different definitions of what constitutes 'ragga jungle'. Full on vocals over jungle ala original nuttah and dancehall label remixes? Reggae influenced production and bass with prominent reggae samples ala Congo natty or Ganja? Tunes that sample reggae but not as their main component?

If you counted every tune that used a reggae sample as ragga jungle, then nearly every tune from 93 to 96 would count. i tend to categorise stuff by attitude as much as anything else - Hype was someone who didn't always use reggae samples as a main hook, or used them with hip Hop samples, but all of his early stuff has that same ruffneck attitude...
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
i'll give you a jungle story then....

kool fm used to have a djj very very early on called fabrock.... he was the son of hollywood director mike figgis.... that is the truth....

i was like riko, 'i used to go school with kool on the brain' that station was amazing.... best pirate of all time.
 
L

luca

Active member
tape2.jpg



1 . M-Beat Featuring - Nazlyn - Sweet Love
2. Deep Blue - Helicopter
3. UK Apachi & Shy FX Original Nuttah
4. Dj Krust - Warhead
5. Congo Natty - Everday Junglist
6. Congo Natty - Junglist (DJ Zinc Remix)
7. Micky Finn & DJ Hype - Bad Ass
8. Congo Natty feat. Top Cat - Push Up U Lighter
9. M-Beat Featuring General Levy - Incredible
10. FireFox - Warning
11. Shy fx - This Style
12. Mad Skillz - Nod Factor
13. Dope skillz - 6 Million ways
14. Leviticus - Burial
15. DJ Krust - set speed
16 .Tribe of Issachar - Code Red
17. X Project - dubplate 1
18. Wayne Smith - Under Mi Sleng Teng
19. Alex reece - Pulp Fiction


http://www.rossibandluca.com/JungleMix.mp3
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
anyone for an anthem? bash bash bash bash bash bash

edit - because that looks like i mean it badly. looks fun :)
 
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john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Luka and luca in almost simultaneous posting shocker!

Their name is Lu(c/k)a!
They live on the second floor!
They live upstairs from you,
yes I think you've seen them before

droid said:
Uh Huh. And different definitions of what constitutes 'ragga jungle'. Full on vocals over jungle ala original nuttah and dancehall label remixes? Reggae influenced production and bass with prominent reggae samples ala Congo natty or Ganja? Tunes that sample reggae but not as their main component?

If you counted every tune that used a reggae sample as ragga jungle, then nearly every tune from 93 to 96 would count. i tend to categorise stuff by attitude as much as anything else - Hype was someone who didn't always use reggae samples as a main hook, or used them with hip Hop samples, but all of his early stuff has that same ruffneck attitude...
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I'm a bit simple but I think that the main hook has to come from reggae or ragga. And it has to be jungle.

So that Tenor Fly thing with Pendulum isn't ragga jungle. It's ragga breakbeat trance.

Hip hop samples do not a ragga jungle record make. Are you mad?

"oh well the main sound sources here are Swan Lake, industrial turbines and the sounds of mating quails, but the way Hype mixes them all up is so raggamuffin that I would class this as a ragga jungle record".
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
mms said:
jungle was just the adoption of ragga elements and mixing them with hardcore - i guess the antagonism came from ppl who didn't like jungle.
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this is not accurate - people were calling hardcore "jungle" or the perennial "jungle tekno" as far back as 1991. for me its all jungle, never cared for drum n bass. its also got fuck all to do with racism epithets although i guess people can read into terms whatever they want. i've got stuff going back as far as 1990 with ragga samples in it too, but not full on chatting. prob. the first true jungle tune in that sense was genaside II narra mine.
 
D

droid

Guest
john eden said:
I'm a bit simple but I think that the main hook has to come from reggae or ragga. And it has to be jungle.
Hip hop samples do not a ragga jungle record make. Are you mad?

"oh well the main sound sources here are Swan Lake, industrial turbines and the sounds of mating quails, but the way Hype mixes them all up is so raggamuffin that I would class this as a ragga jungle record".
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You're not far off. I was referring to early Ganja there... in that short period where ragga and hip hop samples rubbed shoulders... say something like 'mash up the place'. Big ragga vocal sample, but you wouldn't call it a hook, specially as it has that 'rhythm is fundamental to the spirit' sample as a counterpoint. Or Congo Natty's 'walking in the air'? Big Cutty ranks sample alongside Alyd Jones. Or 'the Way' by Taktik. Rinsing ragga vocal intro and cut ins, but dominated by the Regina Belle vocal. Then theres the ragga rave stuff that came out on labels like mad Ragga johns madhouse with 2 bar ragga samples and tons of industrial rave stabs, Labello Blancos' early output from the like of DJ dubplate, who almost always used ragga samples, but usually with a light touch and not always as a main hook...

In fact, using that definition early Hype stuff on subbase like 'the trooper' and 'the chopper', wouldn't really be classed as 'ragga' at all - nor would Dub war by dance conspiracy! (did anyone ever tell you bout the raggamuffin bizness and ting?)

The point I'm trying to make is that in a genre defined by a 'sample anything' ethos its the contrasts between sample sources that make a tune what it is, so a narrow definition of what's 'ragga' isnt particularly easy to justify. Attitude does come into it.

IMHO of course :)
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Diggedy Derek said:
Haha.

Has the progressed this far without mentioning the forthcoming Ragga Twins retrospective on Soul Jazz? It's truly awesome.
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Us mere mortals have yet to get copies, Derek ;)

Tho it is gratifying to see that the cover photo looks like it was taken by Clapton Ponds.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Looks great but I bet someone could write a little script to come up the track/label/artist titles. :cool:
 
hucks

hucks

Your Message Here
That mix is fucking dope. Listened to it all day yesterday. Burial by Leviticus is the greatest record ever.
 
benjybars

benjybars

village elder.
ok, here's a question - does anyone know if the ragga/vocal side of jungle ever got any kind of exposure in Jamaica?? did the Barrington Levy, Bounty Killer vocal tracks ever make it big out there for example?
 
M

matmustard

theta
I was working at Greensleeves when they commissioned their jungle remixes and for the most part Ja didn't care or have any idea. Greensleeves paid out due publishing royalties in full and on time - not exactly common practice on the island - so the artists/producers may have been fairly oblivious but were happy enough!
 
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