Actioning a blue-skies approach outside the box

slowtrain

New member
On a related tangent, what about modern art speak? Some of it so absurdly silly, I mean the stuff like "his work is primarily concerned with the socio-psycho geographies inherent in modern sexual practices, though operating primarily in the medium of oil painting, the texture of his work delves into more complex forms of sculpture and installation, there are references to latent impressionism and a not inchoate neo-post-futurist approach in the handling of colour blah blah blah"
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Yeah, they love all that stuff in the little captions they have on the wall next to modern art works in galleries, don't they? A lot of it seems to be interchangeable: "Through the dialectical tension of light and dark...the viewer is invited into a dialogue...the artist explores themes such as...challenges preconceptions...projects into a space...subverts perspectives..." - now I know conceptual art is not like looking at a pretty painting, and you need to know a bit about it to appreciate it, but I find it a bit odd that there needs to be a little sign next to the piece telling you what to think about it. Should art speak for itself? And if it's the concept behind it that's so interesting, why not dispense with the art altogether and just go with the description?
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
On a related tangent, what about modern art speak?
I'd say this is a subgenre of the academic jargon found in universities that I was mentioning earlier upthread. Its purpose? To obscure as much as possible the fact that you really aren't sure what you're talking about, but to reinforce the idea in the audience and in yourself that they don't "get it" because it's very difficult stuff to understand and requires an expert.






With a master's degree.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
but I find it a bit odd that there needs to be a little sign next to the piece telling you what to think about it. Should art speak for itself? And if it's the concept behind it that's so interesting, why not dispense with the art altogether and just go with the description?
Art and Language did the whole 'just the description' thing in the 60s, as well as Fluxus.

It's lazy to think that language used in philosophy or art to try and describe states of consciousness that perhaps haven't been described yet, and indeed need new forms of language in order to describe them, are merely obscuring things in order to become elitist, in the same way as management speak isn't around in order to be elitist, it's there cos we're overpopulated and need to create jobs for people.

I don't think art needs to speak for itself any more than music on soundcloud doesn't need metatags. It can do, of course, but it's not an either/or situation. Surely all information is good.
 

slowtrain

New member
Yeah, they love all that stuff in the little captions they have on the wall next to modern art works in galleries, don't they? A lot of it seems to be interchangeable: "Through the dialectical tension of light and dark...the viewer is invited into a dialogue...the artist explores themes such as...challenges preconceptions...projects into a space...subverts perspectives..." - now I know conceptual art is not like looking at a pretty painting, and you need to know a bit about it to appreciate it, but I find it a bit odd that there needs to be a little sign next to the piece telling you what to think about it. Should art speak for itself? And if it's the concept behind it that's so interesting, why not dispense with the art altogether and just go with the description?
Plus if we are taking a postmodern approach then we're bringing our own meaning in anyway, so being told is actually counter....?

It can be a lot of fun though, heheh
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
[...] in the same way as management speak isn't around in order to be elitist, it's there cos we're overpopulated and need to create jobs for people.
To attempt a quick summary of what I reckon re: management speak from my giant ramble upthread: it exists (or at least continues to exist) because it does actually confer benefits from above. It's like a covert / unstated performance indicator for those trying to climb the management ladder.

Not talking about the really egregious examples, but the use of things like "facilitate" not "chair" / "run" a meeting, "going forward" not "from now on", "challenge" not difficulty, "issue" not "problem", "learnings" / "takeaways" not "lessons", "offline" not "one on one" / "after this meeting", "I hear what you're saying", "I'd like to acknowledge" etc. etc. If you can't do this stuff and you want to be a manager, that's a challenge that you need to address. ;)

The thing about hiding what you're doing is that there are those who do that in all situations - to attempt it they usually try on the register / tone that's right for the situation. So if they're managers, of course they'll use management speak. But that doesn't necessarily mean that's why that stuff exists.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
To attempt a quick summary of what I reckon re: management speak from my giant ramble upthread: it exists (or at least continues to exist) because it does actually confer benefits from above. It's like a covert / unstated performance indicator for those trying to climb the management ladder.
A shibboleth, in other words. I tend towards this explanation too.

It's lazy to think that language used in philosophy or art to try and describe states of consciousness that perhaps haven't been described yet, and indeed need new forms of language in order to describe them, are merely obscuring things in order to become elitist, in the same way as management speak isn't around in order to be elitist, it's there cos we're overpopulated and need to create jobs for people.
Eh, I'm sure you're right, I know jack about art. I didn't really mean that captions on bits of conceptual art are there to "obscure" anything exactly, although they probably (unintentionally) have that effect sometimes.
 
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Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
I am two hours away from ending my job as a temp at an international bank, and I am starting to get the distinct impression that one of my endless number of managers is about to have the balls to ask me to pay for an access card that I lost last week.

I feel like I might have to action a kicking approach around the ass that, going forward, will lead to outside-the-window thinking.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
round these parts i hear a lot of "go big. with legs." etc.

and this kinda shit, different from corporate fucktard language, but rather casual, near-automatic associative stream of consciousness favored by the advertising and entertainment world:

“We’ve had it with people talking to us like a huge lump of people – ‘show up at the rally and click for peace.’ Now it’s time for the leaders to stand out.” …In that haze of noise, there’s the guy in the motorcycle.
why of course, the proverbial guy in the motorcycle. no need to explain further.
 

BareBones

wheezy
friend of mine got emailed this today -

Trust you are doing well. I have the pleasure to invite you – or interested colleagues - to round table debates on ‘HOW TO START NEW CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS’

I look forward to welcoming you. Here is some information:

Topic: You will be joining a select group of your peers to debate how retention can be improved by starting new conversations with our customers. Our shared experience ranges from customer inertia to high churn.
How do we build trust and encourage our customers to engage in a two-way dialogue with our brands? We will discuss what impact listening to their needs has in building value through every interaction in the customer’s experience.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Fucking hell, "two-way dialogue" - unlike those famous one-way dialogues you hear all the time, right?
 

Leo

Well-known member
great thread...and it's not like the music scene doesn't have it's own set of jargon. artists/tunes don't get popular, they "blow up"; people don't listen to the radio, they're "locked in." etc...
 
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you

Active member
Had a gem at work today.

Highlights included:

'past historic data'

as in data, acquired in the past, mentioned afterwards........ just data would suffice - ill presume we don't use time travel.......Fucks sake....

and

'personalise bespoke collateral'

1 - Collateral was the subject of the text, and previous meeting - marketing materials/strategies - so its not bloody collateral!!!!

2 - bespoke OR personalised - bespoke is personalised......fucks sake, pick one
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Trust you are doing well. I have the pleasure to invite you – or interested colleagues - to round table debates on ‘HOW TO START NEW CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS’

I look forward to welcoming you. Here is some information:

Topic: You will be joining a select group of your peers to debate how retention can be improved by starting new conversations with our customers. Our shared experience ranges from customer inertia to high churn.
How do we build trust and encourage our customers to engage in a two-way dialogue with our brands? We will discuss what impact listening to their needs has in building value through every interaction in the customer’s experience.
That's so awful it beggars belief. "How do we build trust" - don't lie to people? In fact, it sounds so awful it would be bound to be amazing.

I got to write the word 'cunts' on a piece of paper and stick it to the wall today at work as office decoration (there is more context than this, but not much). I'm starting to think my job isn't that bad. Athough the orderlies can be a bit intrusive.
 

BareBones

wheezy
lol. similarly (i think?) at a friend's work earlier this year, the powers that be put up these framed posters around the place of all these inspirational marketing-guff quotes "building trust blah blah blah" etc, and some frustrated and heroic employee went around and drew big spunking cocks over all of them.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Overheard one of my bosses yesterday using what might now be favourite management-speak phrase ever: 'make sure we've got all our ducks in a row'. :confused:
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
^ I first heard that from a nutty old guy in about 2002, so that it's gained traction as an acceptable or even prestigious phrase to drop just makes me laugh.

An IT supplier (of software-as-a-service, fully scalable cloud solutions, no doubt leveraging Web 2.0 technologies) happily informed me they have a twenty-four seven follow-the-sun support offering. Sad day. It's not management speak per se, but a neologism I fucking hate hearing said is "twenty-four seven". Dunno why it irks me so. Also hate that use of "offering" ...

All that IT sales stuff is packed full of linguistic... innovation. :(
 
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