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Yeah, Noel I think I understood, and as I said I don't think D&G have much to say on this. I did dig up some online versions of the Foucault interviews I mentioned http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/danger.htm And I guess he's not exactly valorizing pedophilia so much as 1) advocating for...

Nomad, you quoted this yourself. Looks pretty "in particular" to me. Anyway, I was referring to Genghis Khan, to clarify that I did not suggest capitalism promotes disorder (ie "I laid out specific ways in which he (Genghis Khan) promoted new/different modes of order") or that such would be a...

Does this have a real lofi feel or did I somehow download a copy ripped from vinyl? Also, some real Terry Riley-isms here, Shri Camel especially.

Hmm, I thought it was a hoax, perhaps it was some other group...

Ugh, no. That was not my "interpretation," in fact I believe I laid out specific ways in which he promoted new/different modes of order. To whoever brought up D&G and pedophilia (I know this is pushing the conversation back several pages), I think Foucault would be more relevant. He...

I find this idea pretty depressing actually: music as finite, but it surely is Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we're not in for a new Wagnerism (intermedia)

Well, revivals minus some sort of innovation or transformation tend to fail, so in a sense you're talking about something new at that point.

Nah man, that's not true. I think any given genre's got a finite field to enact itself within. Sometimes that field gets filled up and so we get cultural artifacts (bluegrass, bebop), other times things just run out of steam (situational failures), and occasionally somebody finds a (temporary)...

Vim, the book was written about the 1400-1800 time period, so he's not exactly discussing capitalist command economies (US after ww2, south korea, japan? etc). When he talks about centralization in the quote you used above he's primarily discussing it as a local phenomenon, referring to meat...

Noel, if I'd wanted to say something about my personal stance I would have. On your second paragraph, you respect something you wish to keep at a distance. I don't think that's their agenda.

This is great man, thanks. I'm a total sucker for malian guitar music, so they had me with their first post.

Vim, Braudel was writing in postwar france up until maybe the early 80's when the reworking of "civilization and capitalism" was released. I think saying he was a fan of D&G would be overstated, but obviously there's some influence back and forth. Also, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by...

I'm sorry Noel, but this is a pretty awful rhetorical move on your part. I laid out an interpretation (never claimed it was objective, just better), was attacked for it, and explained myself rather irritatedly (with no rebuttal in sight I guess). This isn't sniping, it's defending a point...

When did I say I have a stance here ? And anyway, how are my positions relevant ? This is a conversation about an idea. I'm merely pointing out what I see as a misconception

More broadly, I'm not sure how clear I have to make my point here: within D&G's thought there are 2 possible definitions of capitalism 1, as a historic socio-economic system (which I think they retreat from to some extent) 2, as a process of the devaluation (more accurately) of all values...

Again, I think more familiarity with the actual history would benefit you here, because no, that's not what immediately happened. At any rate, I'm not holding Gengis Khan up as some perfect exemplar of anti-capitalist thought, I'm pointing out that within D&G's definition of capitalism he's a...

Also Also, thanks, as I should have dug this up anyway : <i>"We need to do just as Marx recommended, and accelerate, not resist, capital's destruction of traditions, ethnicities and territorialities."</i> ie : capitalism as abstract process is the solution to capitalism as historic object

1, I didn't say anti-bad-capitalist or anti-bad-corporation. I said anti-capitalist and anti-corporatist, full stop. Please direct your comments to my actual statements. 2, Genghis Khan's horde : revaluation of all values : capitalism if you want to question this, I would suggest you look at...

Right, that's why everybody else there's posting from Europe too.... Given that they view capitalism much like they do the state, ie as ahistoric, merely awaiting implementation, I don't see how you miss this. If our formula is (as it is for D&G) capitalism : revaluation of all values then...

HAHA. Wooh. %90? Look, if you can't see that every single resistive structure or technique they lay out is derived directly from capitalism's processes then, well, yeah, that's the problem with being a strict constructionist: it means you're an idiot.