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@ Gavin: One universal for people, do you agree wth this or not though?!

There is no way out! Or certainly, not like that... For us at least... we will only perceive it as a product, as a "holiday" as a "drug"... Is there really any "outside" left? Surely not for much longer...

Or as my mum puts it: Sex is always already gendered...?

I'm working from (1)Meillassoux's principle of absolute contingency/theory of hyper-chaos: The only thing which is necessary is absolute contingency... (but this can wait for the Collapse discussion thread perhaps)... (2) Some kind of bullshit vitalism/trans-generic anti-scientific memetics...

Right. Is not even the category of "natural" entirely constructed?!?

Everything is absolutely contingent! We need to move on from the human all together! Um, yes, I would agree however that Consumer-capital (obviously) takes metabolic desire and transfers it into a system of ever expanding horizons of desire and identity... (because of the consumerist...

Because the system you are espousing (complete with filmic references) is explicity within the homo-fascist aesthetic. It rests upon a (deceptively seductive) naive assumption that we can return to some pre-lapsarian natural state of bodily/mental purity. About four years ago Zhao I was...

Hang on- isn't that all desire??? That impossible relation between subject and objet petit a? Where satisfaction can never be achieved?

Or simply understand "you" is a necessary illusion, "you" = a mere nodal point set in a vast (multi-registered) sea of flowing, seething, violently teeming self-maximising viral information.

Perhaps you are correct... maybe I was too extreme there... but certainly breaking out of the binary is the way through (maybe Zhao- in terms of a true-Zen renunciation of desire?)

Explain?

Ultimately we must renounce "health" to become truly healthy. In a sense our non-mediated identities are precisely our inimitable symptoms (mental and physical).

Precisely! Its ultimately what is played upon above all else! Identity and fear of death, constructing an identity to deny death (whilst filling the world with dead fetish objects, filled up with voodoo powers, literally death-over-life over death, well sort of...) @zhao: I totally understand...

Haha... fair enough... I definitely didn't mean my comments above to be in any sense pejorative... I do think the drums on this album have less swing to them than before (ie the perversely crumbling autistic anti-rhythm of "Broken Home")... they are also mixed lower, more muffled, obviously they...

I would also add that I personally see no reason to desire to live a massively extended life. (although that does not mean I'm valorising destructive-hedonism). That seems to be a vital part in deconstructing the Capitalist system as is: many of its negative aspects stem from the desire to...

Right, but how do you disentangle "health" the image of it as purchase-able via addiction-weakness-marketing and some unmediated actuality of organic "real" well-being? The actual solution is to find some way out of the whole perverted binary system, which you have pinpointed correctly as being...

I have found it fairly informative that it is not just crit theory academics who are bitchy tribal egotistical bastards...

-- red rag: meet bull...

Hahaha... very true though.

OTM.