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  1. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    it's a good point that it shouldn't just be seen as an Israeli intelligence failure but a Hamas operational success surely there must have been some kind of evolutionary process anyone still alive and high up enough to be planning such a major operation must have gotten very good at...
  2. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    U.S. intelligence wouldn't know closely what's going on inside Gaza. for the Israelis, a near inconceivable intelligence failure. there's no way to know, but complacency sliding into arrogance seems like one answer. that was largely the case in 73. another is the decades long Palestinian...
  3. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    to expand further on this the only place and time besides the Holocaust where diaspora conditions approached Gaza/WB was the Pale of Settlement many Jews there lived in miserable conditions. so did most of their serf (after emancipation, peasant) neighbors. and indeed pogroms etc were a...
  4. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    you really are ignorant you know who was historically famous for being violent under oppressive military occupation? the Jews, under Roman occupation and Jews of the diaspora almost never lived in conditions comparable to Palestinians, and when they did, some of them fought back the Warsaw...
  5. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    Lebanon is a democracy that shares a land border with Israel not a perfect one certainly but literally a functioning democracy
  6. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    not only in the sense of unwinnable conflicts, but of restructuring a society the way that 9/11 restructured American society and psyche the implications are so enormous they cannot be overstated when I first heard the news I thought of Kfar Etzion in 48 but as the scale became clear I...
  7. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    I think it is/has been about morality or guilt for plenty of individuals, including famously Harry Truman was also much easier to view the Israelis as underdogs in 1948 if you're only talking about state policy post-67 then absolutely morality has a lot less to do with it than realpolitik...
  8. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    That's what this attack is really about for Hamas I think, making Gaza unmanageable for Netanyahu and showing that to the world, but specifically the Sunni govts. the 2nd biggest fear of Hamas is those Sunni govts making normalization deals with Israel as UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan have...
  9. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    How is having a massive PR strategy devoted to obscuring your atrocities somehow better, or worse, than proclaiming them openly? Israeli govt has been doing this literally since its inception. Go look up hasbara. and that's an absolutely absurd statement. while you're at it, go look up the...
  10. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    I know your whole thing is being a RW edgelord, but read the fucking sentence please. It literally says "unjustifiable". That's why it's a -nuanced- position. I'll try to dumb it down so you can understand Murdering civilians at music festival == unjustifiable Responsibility for the...
  11. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    The obvious retort to the civilian angle is that Israel frequently kills civilians. Yes, and it's wrong. It doesn't make this right. Settler fanatics are a plague on Israeli society and the govt's decades-long inability, for domestic political reasons, to deal with or even restrain them is a...
  12. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    Sure. I just don't think it will kick off Arab Spring 2.0.
  13. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    Basically yes But more specifically, saying that if you criticize this action, you aren't actually for Palestinian liberation. Where usually there'd be a line drawn between say, throwing rocks or even shooting at soldiers, and shooting and kidnapping civilians at a music festival, I've seen at...
  14. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    It could be NBC weapons this time around, you never know Tho if I'm the Revolutionary Guard/whoever, I'm doing everything in my power to stop any Palestinian militants from procuring them. If there's ever NBC attack in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, Tehran is almost certainly next.
  15. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    This I don't quite agree with. Lebanon, the Intifadas, and Lebanon again all proved that Israel isn't untouchable. Not in this way, granted. However, the oncoming massive reprisal will surely be followed by an enormously focused increase on security. Like, this almost certainly won't happen...
  16. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    I don't disagree with any of that. I was referring more to the international pressure and to a lesser extent Israeli domestic opposition that usually puts some kind of breaks on the violence, which will be almost nonexistent. Bc this could well be orders of magnitude worse.
  17. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    An operational and incredible propaganda coup, I'll say that. No one's done anything like this since really 1948? Internecine raiding and counterraiding in the 50s-60s (where Sharon first made his bones btw) but even that never reached near this scale. And to do it on the anniversary of the Yom...
  18. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    Of course And if you're Palestinian, I get it, what else can you do but hope for the best out of this miserable situation I'm more responding to the many, many wild social media takes treating this as if it's another Intifada. Those were organic popular uprisings against an apartheid state...
  19. padraig (u.s.)

    Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

    sure who knows but I seriously doubt it the big short to medium term winner seems very likely to be Iran (or rather, the Iranian regime) if this postpones or scuttles entirely the forthcoming Isr-Saudi normalization deal, their govts mutual enmity of Iran being the major selling point of that...
  20. padraig (u.s.)

    No Future for the GOP?

    This was always a distinct possibility. Freedom Caucus et al held McCarthy's feet to the fire for a long, long time when he was initially elected and have threatening some version ever since. He called their bluff. They answered. A significant part of the GOP isn't interested in governing at...
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