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i knew this would end up being an idiotic debate (which is why i said it wasn't worth rehashing) with people accusing others of taking positions that they did not in fact take so it'd be helpful if people would read closely what someone else says before making such accusations (not that my...

actually i had it the other way around such that jazz-funk is middle class and rough n raw is working class but fact that we're not even clear on which classes prefer which sounds goes to show that's it's more about connotation than constituency my sentiments exactly that's imitation from...

lest we all have short memories, this is the position that blissblogger took in his debate with kirk degiorgio regarding detroit techno isn't this really a "don't lose the forest for the trees" issue? if you look at the trees, there's always going to be white musicians involved, white...

this is the same issue as "urban music" versus "black music" so i'm not sure if there's any point in rehashing the arguments that were made in that thread yes, there are plenty of white people who participate in and contribute to black music and yes, there are all sorts of debts owed on all...

yeah -- i can get overly earnest in these discussions but i still think there's no neat rock analogy for what broken beats is doing maybe it's just like deep house (except lighter to the touch and more rhythmically inventive) -- a subculture going nowhere but with enough commitment from...

errrr, i don't think anyone was making this suggestion rather, i took blissblogger to mean that the ruffness & rawness of early jungle, early house, early hip hop, etc, was mainly a FUNCTION OF THE LIMITED TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS in the hands of the producers (and of course this point is valid...

yes whites participate in and contribute to every area of black music -- but it's still black music -- cf. thread on "urban music" and when it becomes more of a white thing than a black thing then it's no longer black music -- it's something else -- call it "deracinated" or "gentrified,"...

or you could say it's a jazz thing except that the broken beats thing is not so much a new retro phenomenon, but as was said upthread a "new name" for long-existing currents in urban soul and house music -- and the artists and fans see this music as constantly pushing things forward --...

the comparisons you make are reasonable -- but not convincing (though i can't for the moment say why i'm not convinced) HOWEVER, to get back to ladyboy's point -- isn't it rather the case that hardcore sounds are structurally related to fusion-y sounds -- i.e, the fusion sounds antedate the...

i think ladyboy grimsby is on the mark with this comment and wasn't there a (prematurely aborted) thread on dissensus about the hardcore continuum stretching back before breakbeat hardcore into "ragga hip hop" and adrian sherwood-type stuff -- and then back to what? that is, maybe in the uk...

yes, but they often make a virtue of "ruffness," though they use technique to achieve a ruff sound -- indeed, why do so many acts put "ruff" in their name if they're not very consciously striving to achieve such a sound -- and this is true of hip hop to dancehall to grime and back to breakbeat...

errrr, this is despite the fact that you could probably cite this song as a precursor for the really lame "wackiness" of so much trip hop

yeah, that's my sense of it as well they were "there" when it happened -- they made it happen -- and now they've moved on tis a shame that what they've moved on to is so boring . . . . but what you can you say? try to convince someone who understands things better than you do -- i.e., they...

not the least bit funky in my opinion however, i think "funky zulu" by the moody boys is ultra funky

the heat crew have another grime event this saturday featuring dj cameo, j2k and crazy titch and the heat crew djs = greg poole & dinesh playing grime plus uk garage plus crunk plus dancehall plus bhangra plus dj eddie stats playing reggaeton and the heat crew mcs = deadly crisis, lucky and...

thought i'd move this back to the top as the first party is this saturday again, i'm the selector (i.e., select but don't mix) from 10 pm to 4 am, then dj renochild from manchester takes over . . . . admission should be free before 3 am or so, then probably $10 or $15 on the door . . . . that...

the mc's were white, except for roots manueva but nothing exceptional about the mc's it was the dj who blew my mind -- some black guy from london and then some white english guy took over at a couple of points

no, wasn't them i'd have recognized ripley but why do you mention them? are they touring w/ roots manueva or something?

of course all my british mates played it off like you can hear this any night of the week if you know where to go in london, manchester, etc but judging by how they, too, were not about to leave the dance floor -- surely they were no less impressed than me not sure how the night ended as my...

missed the roots manueva show last night at knitting factory but i went to the after party at this really cool bar at kent & south fifth and i must say, THESE WERE THE BEST DJs THAT I'VE HEARD SINCE I DON'T KNOW WHEN they played real-deal junglistic music then into raw house back into...