BNP on Question Time

[Martin Dust]

Yeah isn't it basically conceded at this point that everybody comes from one woman in Africa and then all Ys are traced to one guy in Africa from a few hundred miles away (who is, actually, if I'm remembering correctly, supposed to have evolved a few thousand years later).

No, Eve was not the only women alive at that time, why, oh why did they call her Eve It's such a common misconception because of this.

 

[Martin Dust]

just watch the newer TV series of Battlestar Galactica, it explains all this Eve business in the very final episode, easy to follow like

No need to troll.

 

[scottdisco]

No need to troll.

apologies, will remove

 

[scottdisco]

I thought it was one of three theories and still unproven.

in seriousness ( ) what are the three theories?

 

[scottdisco]

i haven't the foggiest if this is sound or not, though the final sentence sounds like most recent common ancestor
but anyway

she’s the last common matrilineal ancestor of all living humans- all humans alive today have her mitochondrial DNA. She is NOT, however, the last common ancestor of all humans alive today. And she has been dated statistically to have lived about 140,000 years ago. It should be remembered though that this does not mean that other women didn’t leave descendants whose are still alive. Mitochondrial-DNA is only inherited on the female side; a woman who had 10 male children but no females would be a mitochondrial dead end, but could have theoretically millions of descendants alive today.
Also, Mitochondrial Eve is not a static individual; a thousand years from now there will be a different one; and a thousand years ago there was a different one

 

[scottdisco]

sorry to bang this drum again, as well, but couldn't resist adding, before i turn in

The only answer is to prevent those who are simply economic migrants from coming here in the first place.

from a Daily Express editorial, 23rd February 2005 (no source online but i wrote it down at the time, trust me)

 

[Mr. Tea]

"The only answer is to prevent those who are simply economic migrants from coming here in the first place."

Oh well, at least the paper is presumable fully supportive of the rights of assylum seekers fleeing torture, persecution and death to stay here.

Presumably.

 

[nomadthethird]

No, Eve was not the only women alive at that time, why, oh why did they call her Eve It's such a common misconception because of this.

Huh? Of course not, that wasn't my point. Jeez.

But there was a "first" homo sapien woman in the sense that there's one homo sapien woman, one of the earliest, to whom we can trace all X chromosomes, and she lived about 150,000 years ago.

The work's by and large been done.

 

[nomadthethird]

The theory is strong but that's all it is, when I see the words probably and story in science articles it makes me wonder. Same with the Ghengis Khan Effect and so on...

It doesn't really help with the BNP issue as Mr T suggested above.

There's a huge difference between science journalism and science.

I'd suggest you take the former less seriously than you take the latter.

Science has laid to rest the notion that evolution was parallel on different landmasses. Mapping the genome helped close the book on that. We know now that we can trace all X chromosomes to one homo sapien woman who lived in Africa 150,000 years ago.

 

[luka]

facepalm!

 

[Mr. Tea]

Nomad, as far as you know is there a drug that's like naloxone, only for caffeine instead of opioids? I'm getting a bit worried about luka.

 

[nomadthethird]

Nomad, as far as you know is there a drug that's like naloxone, only for caffeine instead of opioids? I'm getting a bit worried about luka.

Hmm...no, but my mother told me the other day they just developed a naloxone for cocaine (she was psyched about this), which may work for caffeine addicts as well? Might be a little strong, but luka's tough enough.

 

[Martin Dust]

Science has laid to rest the notion that evolution was parallel on different landmasses. Mapping the genome helped close the book on that. We know now that we can trace all X chromosomes to one homo sapien woman who lived in Africa 150,000 years ago.

Really, are they 100% sure of the landmasses and there position? Everything I've read would suggest they aren't nor that they 100% about one women but hey lets not bicker, I'm genuinely interested.

 

[scottdisco]

"YouGov defrauded in BNP poll sting"

 

[Martin Dust]

"YouGov defrauded in BNP poll sting"

Interesting although they don't even know if it's illegal.

 

[scottdisco]

No, to my knowledge it's still extant, they're just arguing about when the original migration happened; it's all to do with that skull from Tbilisi. There's speculation about whether the Eurasian model was a separate development but personally I doubt it, history has always underestimated the ability of mammals to spread perniciously and vastly.

I thought it was one of three theories and still unproven.

what are the three theories then?

are they basically (to crudely reduce incredibly complex blah blah)

out of Africa

multi-region

out of Africa, turns up in Georgia, goes back to Africa and then leaves again ?

more or less?

i thought before the Tbilisi skull initiated changes in thinking most mainstream thinking was basically behind out of Africa full stop?

Tea or Nomad to thread!!

Um I think Martin might be being pedantic about the Mitochondrial Eve thing, sorry if that's not the case though Martin.

i'm a bit confused but was mistersloane right here Martin? (sounds like you know a lot more about this sort of thing than me, just genuinely wondering, cheers!)
sorry for all the indents

i do wonder if nick griffin calls his 2:2 a desmond though

LOL

 

[Martin Dust]

My point is that it's not 100% Scott and until we have dug up every single fossil it won't be, nor are the methods they are using to date things 100% accurate plus there's strong evidence that people did survive the Ice Age in the good ole UK for example, not that this helps Mr. Gri££in but I'm interested in the subject.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Really, are they 100% sure of the landmasses and there position? Everything I've read would suggest they aren't nor that they 100% about one women but hey lets not bicker, I'm genuinely interested.

I'm pretty sure it's uncontested that all living humans share a last common female ancestor who lived a couple of hundred thousand years ago, and last common male ancestor who lived considerably later. (The gap is to do with the fact that there is usually a bigger variance in the reproductive success of men than of women; loosely, it's common for women to have a few kids whereas some men have loads of kids and some have none at all; consequently, a group of people with common ancestry will typically have a last common forefather from a more recent generation than their last common foremother.)

What's interesting about humans compared to the other great apes is the relatively small genetic variation we have, which has led some geneticists to conclude that some time after the first anatomically modern humans appeared there was a population bottleneck - a disastrous event that reduced the whole human population (probably all still living in Africa at this time) to just a few thousand individuals, from whom all humans alive today are descended.

The great variety of skin tones, facial features, typical builds and so on of people from different parts of the world makes me think that probably only a small percentage of our DNA encodes for aspects for the phenotype that are externally visible - though there are other things like resistance/susceptibility to certain diseases and the ability or otherwise to metabolise certain foods that vary between ethnic groups too.

 

[martin]

What I want to know is - if the BNP are so patriotic, why don't they mention Cornish Pasties or Tribute? A friend from Cornwall brought a load back for me, and it's the best nosh and swig ever.

Then again, he says Cornwall's a separate state and that England should just fuck off. Fair point!

 

[martin]

Put a BNP team on 'The Great British Quiz', then you can have a really good laugh