Getting ripped off ...

[polystyle]

Just wanted to bring up a subject just about anybody who has 'sold' music can possibly relate to -getting ripped off by labels.
I have dealt with too many in this regard - but one just keeps coming around ...

Late '09 we were contacted by a film music coordinator about licensing "Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight" (last century, circa '84 ) for a JM Basquiat docu.
Problem was - she had done what many do in order to 'find out' who owned rights - Googled for the info and found on this film info site where Master rights appeared to be owned by Warlock Records and so she went ahead and contacted them.
I can guess they were quite happy to get the call .

Fact is , we have tried to deal with Warlock for some years without satisfaction.
They used to be Streetwise Records, home of "Planet Rock" and many others you may know and they made a deal with our executive producer Joel Webber's small uprOAr records inc. to release the 12" in the US.
I'm not gonna say more about the backstory of Streetwise here in a public forum ,
but they 'went bankrupt', the catalog was signed over to Warlock and they went onto release CD's under a "Warlock Classics" banner, forgot about accounting (consistent with Streetwise's mode), grabbed money from numerous licenses they had no right to and then when we called them on it revised their sales numbers and %'s and agreed to pay us.
Never happened.
By 2000 or so I let things go ( it had gone on too long already, 'statuate of limitations' and all those rules that favor the *uckers, water under my gott damn bridge) and moved on.

One rather large grab was for use in the movie "Grosse Pointe Blank" where they went ahead and made the deal , took that money and left a trail of info that stated they owned the Master rights.
But by the time this film music clearance person found that info online and contacted Warlock - they had already been bought out by another company.
Thankfully , she next contacted me ( I had filed everything with ASCAP eons ago ) and we had a fun conversation about the history of Streetwise plus there were also other Streetwise tracks on her list to be licensed so she had extra interest in seeing this through...

We made a deal a decade ago with uprOAr's estate that gave us the Master rights ( us being myself and Ken Lockie, the writers ) , we already had the Publishing rights.
The new owners of the Streetwise/ Warlock catalog did realize they probably had no claim in this new deal and said so in writing.
So far so good ...
We could now negotiate for twice the money ( Pub + Master rights )

The next week , an 'exec' from defunct Warlock company calls the clearance person to state they will vigorously claim their rights'.
And so I was REALLY looking forward to talking to this cat myself, but far as I know he let things drop ,not a peep since.
The docu is now in Sundance.

My point on a Sunday is - makers - don't let people *uck you around.
Keep 'em close !

 

[zhao]

wow crazy story man. good for you that things are finally turning around on that stuff (far as i can tell from what you said?). fuckers will always be fuckers and we'll never have a shortage of them... yeah good advice i shall heed them in the future.

 

[mms]

there are alot of crooks in the music business.
warlock were known for their gangsterness weren't they?
hence todd terry's beef?
i'm not too clear on US company law but if you own the master rights and publishing and can prove that, and someone at a company looking to licence your music fucked up and gave money to a company who didn't own your masters then surely they fucked up and owe you the money regardless that they fucked up?

 

[polystyle]

Correct Marcus - one and the same ,
ditto 'legendary' label Streetwise - who came to us when they heard the track as we were recording it .
Who would -could resist going with one of the world's hottest labels ?
And yes, fuckups along the way.
We will never get the 14K plus from that movie licensing, any more then we will get royalties from many copies sold.
We got paid once , in the '80's and only because my man Joel Webber was one of the heads of the New Music Seminar ,
which ruled every summer in those pre CMJ, pre SXSW days and had some pull.

Fine time it was too - NMS '84 show at Paradise Garage ( Robert Gorl / Dominatrix / Run DMC )

 

[hint]

It's shocking how many stories like this there are.

I feel that things are generally much better these days for artists, but I may be wrong. It's been a while since I heard of anyone being ripped off on this kind of large scale. But perhaps that's simply because there isn't so much money up for grabs these days anyway.... I hear more about people missing out on £500 here and there, rather than tens of thousands. I presume that the lack of big money also puts off the pure opportunists, at the lower levels at least. Things go wrong more often through incompetence rather than through anything more sinister.

 

[polystyle]

It's shocking how many stories like this there are.

I feel that things are generally much better these days for artists, but I may be wrong. It's been a while since I heard of anyone being ripped off on this kind of large scale. But perhaps that's simply because there isn't so much money up for grabs these days anyway.... I hear more about people missing out on £500 here and there, rather than tens of thousands. I presume that the lack of big money also puts off the pure opportunists, at the lower levels at least. Things go wrong more often through incompetence rather than through anything more sinister.

Yeah, it was one thing to hear about how one got burned in one's recent past -
when we did hear about it it had already happened (ref: Grosse P Blank licensing ) -
but to hear an old Warlock staffer pipe up with new BS, well, that's just ... not ... going to happen.

The other side of this of course, is how easy and nice it is when someone does the right thing (it's not so hard to do) !
So cheers to all labels and individuals who treat others like they would like to be treated, because it comes around.

 

[Martin Dust]

The BBC used a few of our tunes in a docu last year and when they sent the contract through "they'd forgotten" to put the fee on

 

[mms]

dunno if anyone read the book britpop, my part in it's downfall by luke haines, but there is some interesting stuff in there about fire records and pulp.

warlock ripped off guy called gerald as well didn't they, the certainly weren't exceptional in this from what i understand the early 90's late 80s dance labels were a mess like this.

 

[hint]

warlock ripped off guy called gerald as well didn't they, the certainly weren't exceptional in this from what i understand the early 90's late 80s dance labels were a mess like this.

Was that why Voodoo Ray got re-released as "The Curse Of Voodoo Ray", under a different name? To sidestep Warlock?

 

[polystyle]

dunno if anyone read the book britpop, my part in it's downfall by luke haines, but there is some interesting stuff in there about fire records and pulp.

warlock ripped off guy called gerald as well didn't they, the certainly weren't exceptional in this from what i understand the early 90's late 80s dance labels were a mess like this.

I think these 'guy's (wise or not ) were a bit exceptional - and will leave out more details.
We can guess - were any artists on Streetwise paid ? this would include Afrika Bambaatta,
Konk (who were also on this same new movie JM Basquiat docu sdtk that brought attention to the situation)
and who know how many others ...
I tell them if I know them, otherwise - they have to live and learn too.

So i state here - please do not buy "Sleeps Tonight" from Warlock !

 

[mms]

Was that why Voodoo Ray got re-released as "The Curse Of Voodoo Ray", under a different name? To sidestep Warlock?

this is from an interview on little detroit

is it also the case that you made very little money from Voodoo Ray, even though it still sells well today? Didn't the geezer looking after the pressing etc. just disappear?
I didn't make anything from it at all whatsoever at the time. He did but not before I sorted out all the paperwork. I started to look into music law myself because I couldn't find any legal people that could help me either and found there's many different ways to exploit a record.


Lets get rid of a few myths about the track while we're here. Did you really sell the rights to the track so you could buy a drum machine? Was the track really called Voodoo Rage but you ran out of sample time? Was the vocal sample by Lisa May or was it taken from a old school sample library or Peter Cook record?
Like the religion of Christianity, all big myths.

There was never any drum machine, never any rights sold. I licensed it to a record company who didn't pay me and I've always retained the rights. What you should be asking is what happened to the guy who ran the record company... can't say anymore than that. ;-)

http://www.littledetroit.net/Features/InterviewWithAGuyCalledGe.php
.

 

[polystyle]

What you should be asking is what happened to the guy who ran the record company... can't say anymore than that. ;-)
http://www.littledetroit.net/Features/InterviewWithAGuyCalledGe.php
.

LOL - in recognition ... respect Gerald

And just to bring things into this century , and on a much smaller scale -
After 2000, I found DJ Hell's "Dominatrix" cut on "Munich Machine" and asked the cat in the store about it what was his reply ? "You should be grateful he did it..."

 

[polystyle]

Resolution ...

Sometimes, in the heat, things do work out.

By today, we have
* gotten things straight with the new owners of Warlock ( who seem to be ok people , so far, once we spoke )
* Actually got ahold of the old owner of Warlock - Streetwise and exchanged emails yesterday.
This in itself was a miracle.
* The Basquiat movie deal now happened
* Streetwise Box set being prepared- and they want "Sleeps" on it , with comments, backstory , etc.
So Arthur's made a deal too. Did it for the $ and out of respect for John Robie.

Turns out the other two parties had not been talking alot, creating a gap all around.
I thought they were all *ucking around.
Sometimes things are different then one thinks they are ... esp. when no one's talking to each other !

 

[Chef Napalm]

I have to admit first that I have absolutely no experience with any labels releasing my stuff, BUT I have been told from reliable sources locally who do release stuff regularly on beatport that they have real problems getting paid by 'net labels for their tracks. Not just one guy or one label, either. I've privately wondered if this is a result of out-of-sight-out-of-mind business practices, meaning that the artist is in a relative backwater on the other side of the world, or if it's a concious strategy of non-payment by the labels.

Anybody else experiencing anything similar?

 

[MatthewH]

I ran one for a while, and I've got a track coming out on another one next month and one problem is that quite often the sums of money are really fucking small. Shockingly small. So people can assume they're being dicked around because of it.

Not that that's necessarily the case for your friends, but it's something to consider.

 

[Chef Napalm]

You could well be right.

BTW, nice to see another Canuck on the board.