Twees're Good (except they're not)

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
to add: obsession with 'vintage' stuff, obv esp clothes and accessories, because it's vintage, and not because you happened to just like it.
How do you determine when people "happen to just like it" and when they like it "because it's vintage"? I mean, can we include quite a lot of hip hop culture, analogue synth fetishism and so on in here? Is Ekoplekz twee? Vintage Air Force Ones?

If we're just generally listing stuff that annoys us now then I think cycling very slowly but not stopping at red lights is pretty twee.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
Wha? Think we're getting a bit broad here, I mean I've got quite a few noise tapes with handmade packaging, for starters...

well like i was saying we need to be nail down what is twee. i think nostalgia is certainly involved and when it comes to music this nostalgia will manifest as the fetishising of physical media. but i think it's probably more than that. maybe a certain attitude to the past that goes beyond simple nostalgia. or maybe it's just nostalgia + a certain aesthetic.

noise tapes probably wouldn't fit the bill, nor would hiphop. but then you gotta ask if nostalgia is really that relevant to the definition....
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
If we're just generally listing stuff that annoys us now then I think cycling very slowly but not stopping at red lights is pretty twee.

I guess this is the inherent risk in starting a thread to bash something instead of appreciate it. Maybe there are things in common between Not Not Fun and, say, this Nizlopi song:


I spose nostalgia & a preoccupation with childhood (the two are linked also). But tarring a load of disparate things with the same brush isn't really very illuminating.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
am curious, what did Amanda Brown write? still haven't found a place around where I live that sells the Wire...
It's not really that relevant to twee tbh but she definitely is big on physical media
http://thewire.co.uk/articles/7267/

things that i didn't like about the article: crass characterisation of digital media user - how many people do you know who buy a record, go home and then immediately pirate it? sure, they exist but how relevant is that really?
crass reduction of online music journalism/discourse to pitchfork. i'd have thought this place would be a good counterpoint to that even if it is quite often full of incoherent ranting by people like me.
i don't agree that the internet 'threatens the vitality of the underground as a free forum for diverse activities'. if it does threaten the 'underground' then whatever that is isn't worth saving.
and following on from that there's the fact that her label has probably benefitted in terms of exposure from the internet (like everyone else). but i guess if you're going to say that exposure is ruining you community/subculture then it's not such a great thing.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
I spose nostalgia & a preoccupation with childhood (the two are linked also). But tarring a load of disparate things with the same brush isn't really very illuminating.
Yeah, it's more than generic nostalgia, it's a softening and (at worst) infantilizing of the world.

Having said that, it'd be great if anyone could come up with an explanation for why Mordant Music is basically Belle and Sebastian for people who think they're too cool to like indie...
 

Leo

Well-known member
Having said that, it'd be great if anyone could come up with an explanation for why Mordant Music is basically Belle and Sebastian for people who think they're too cool to like indie...

actually, i thought that was ghostbox. :)

also, there are literally thousands of 20 and 30-something year olds (and dare say even some 40-somethings) in brooklyn who insist on dressing like they are suburban teenagers from the 1970s or 80s (except the jeans are slimmer). don't know if you have the equivalent in the UK, but it all comes off as pretty tweet. yeah, some aspects of being an adult do indeed suck, but is that reason to avoid growing out of your high-school/college identity? it's like there's this notion that living in the modern world is some form of selling out. or maybe they wallow in tweedom because they are so much more attuned to what's cool. :rolleyes:

or maybe it's all just...retromania!
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I wonder, as John does above, why this twee/cutesy/infantile view of the world is so popular (at least from the point of view of advertising - which plays to as well as dictates our desires, I suppose). I wonder if its not just a reaction to lad culture but to cynicism in the culture at large. I mean, that would be the classic psychological explanation for a regression to infantilism, wouldn't it? Fear of the big, bad (and nowadays we're probably more aware than ever just HOW bad) world?

Then again, its probably just a case of (as John also said) of advertisers wanting something vaguely edgy/trendy and emotionally calming but utterly devoid of real edge, or even real intent (the comforting distance of irony). It's fascinating, really, to think that that Match.Com advert MUST work on a lot of people. What message is that awful twee song meant to convey to potential customers? ''Match.Com is lovely/friendly, nonthreatening, is down-to-earth and has a - HILARIOUS! - sense of humour... Just like your dream potential partner''? The filter its filmed with reminds me of the vintage iphone photo style that somebody mentioned on here.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Actually, since Leo mentions Retromania, the chapter I've read of it is interesting in its discussion of record collectors and the possible psychological explanations for somebody becoming such an obsessive nerd... one of which I believe is something to do with infantile regression.

I'm obsessing over infantilism a little because I've just been talking to my psychiatrist about how I'm stuck in a perpetually infantile state.

mighty_boosh_blue.jpg


Twee? Or again, just wilfully surreal/quirky? I think I'm confusing my loathsome subcultures (btw I do quite like the Mighty Boosh).
 

Sectionfive

bandwagon house
Perhaps ad men/women see this overtly pleasant shtick as a way to stand out against the wall to wall sex, cgi and WINTER HATES YOUR FACE stuff.
There's also the angle of a lot of people who were all trendy eight years ago now have young kids and all the tweeness that appeals to that.

Toddlers at music festivals and all that too.
 
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Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Twee is kind of like fantasy novels for the emotions, isn't it? It's mostly a sort of emotional escapism to a simpler world where pretty girls fall for bashful boys and lovesick teens sit by the window watching the rain, and you don't have to worry about the nasty, ugly, complicated side of things. But done another way it can also be a way of making a sly comment on the real stuff...
 

e/y

Well-known member
It's not really that relevant to twee tbh but she definitely is big on physical media
http://thewire.co.uk/articles/7267/

things that i didn't like about the article: crass characterisation of digital media user - how many people do you know who buy a record, go home and then immediately pirate it? sure, they exist but how relevant is that really?
crass reduction of online music journalism/discourse to pitchfork. i'd have thought this place would be a good counterpoint to that even if it is quite often full of incoherent ranting by people like me.
i don't agree that the internet 'threatens the vitality of the underground as a free forum for diverse activities'. if it does threaten the 'underground' then whatever that is isn't worth saving.
and following on from that there's the fact that her label has probably benefitted in terms of exposure from the internet (like everyone else). but i guess if you're going to say that exposure is ruining you community/subculture then it's not such a great thing.

thanks for the link, didn't know it was available online already.

I kind of see where she's coming from wrt to the internet / computers / listening habits and whatnot - I prefer listening to music on my record player or CDs. but that's more due to my stupidly shit attention span in front of a computer and the fact that I already spend so much time in front of it.

think you have it spot on with the points you make, especially on the benefit that NNF / 100% silk have received b/c of the internet.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
How do you determine when people "happen to just like it" and when they like it "because it's vintage"? I mean, can we include quite a lot of hip hop culture, analogue synth fetishism and so on in here? Is Ekoplekz twee? Vintage Air Force Ones?

If we're just generally listing stuff that annoys us now then I think cycling very slowly but not stopping at red lights is pretty twee.

I wasnt' doing that. I said vintage specifically because I think a lot of people into the twee aesthetic tend to venerate vintage clothes too (just as with the tea/cakes/knitting thing) - that's an arguable point, but it's what I've observed personally. However, you're right that I should have specified a certain kind of vintage - sort of 20s - 50s stuff, rather than 70s or 80s - and that I should have said vintage clothes, which is what I meant. Oh, I kind of did... but anyways, to clarify, I didn't mean synths, but clothes.

And in terms of annoyingness, I dont' class it as 'twee' (for reasons above of my own definition of twee), but I do find people who venerate 90ship hop but refuse to listen to modern hip hop at all, for example (and they definitely exist), a bit annoying. Or people who love reggae but would never listen to dancehall, like, ever. But, as said, not twee.

As to whether people happen to like it or like it because it's vintage and they're showing off/belonging to a certain group, you're right that of course no-one can ever tell someone else's motivations for sure, but I think all of us make judgments about other people to that effect (whether we intend to or not) all the time, no?

As far as I can tell, what's annoying everyone here about what they see as 'twee', is that it somehow comes from somewhere not 'real'; in this case, as John said, it pretends puberty never happened.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
That's not very eloquent, but essentially I'm trying to say that yes, tweeness is just an example of a wider phenomenon/way of acting that pisses a lot of us here off, and i was trying to get a handle on what that is/why that pisses us off so much.
 

luka

Well-known member
It's mostly a sort of emotional escapism to a simpler world where pretty girls fall for bashful boys and lovesick teens sit by the window watching the rain

yup
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
Twee is kind of like fantasy novels for the emotions, isn't it? It's mostly a sort of emotional escapism to a simpler world where pretty girls fall for bashful boys and lovesick teens sit by the window watching the rain, and you don't have to worry about the nasty, ugly, complicated side of things.

The difference is that twee has a hip currency which The Wheel Of Time never had. The brand of escapism which you get in naf fantasy novels is pretty easy to deride but it is indicative of the unhappiness of a whole sector of society who have a shit adolescence which almost invariably involves bullying.

Whereas hip twee is just as likely to appeal to those who did the bullying. It's the 'dominant culture' aspect of it which makes it easy for people on Dissensus to deride it, right?

When I watch this Noah and the Whale video


I can't help but think about all the vanity and hipster politicking which must have gone into cultivating and maintaining that image over a period of years. Maybe I'm being unfair.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Maybe I'm being unfair.

No you're not, there's plenty of people who don't like darkness or modern urban music and who like knitting and stupid craft markets for people to make shit that no-one wants but they buy it. And they should go and live in the country. They like it there. They like it there with their parents. They like children and houses and dogs and breeding. They should fuck off out of cities and go back to where they were born. That's what I hate, my air and my airwaves being polluted by these fucking white middle class cunts. What future. It's white-ring reactionaries.

What I hate is the fake consumerism, it's people who think they're better consumers, it's so fucking arrogant. You're just a consumer like fucking everyone else. Just cos you made it yourself doesn't mean you didn't buy the fucking wool.

You're not being unfair.

I hate Laura Marling as well. And that's not just because she's a girl.
 

grizzleb

Well-known member
What I hate is the fake consumerism, it's people who think they're better consumers, it's so fucking arrogant. You're just a consumer like fucking everyone else. Just cos you made it yourself doesn't mean you didn't buy the fucking wool.

Yeah this is a great point.
 

stephenk

Well-known member
No you're not, there's plenty of people who don't like darkness or modern urban music and who like knitting and stupid craft markets for people to make shit that no-one wants but they buy it. And they should go and live in the country. They like it there. They like it there with their parents. They like children and houses and dogs and breeding. They should fuck off out of cities and go back to where they were born. That's what I hate, my air and my airwaves being polluted by these fucking white middle class cunts. What future. It's white-ring reactionaries.

<3
YES
 

paolo

Mechanical phantoms
There's a class thing going on here as well. This whole scene is dominated by middle class types (at least in the UK it is)
 
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