Benny Bunter
Well-known member
god, dubstep people are such a drag
Shuffling / House Music / Cutting Shapes
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- a 1000 tunes and not 1 anthem are you really from the ends? attractions including a magician bore to the floor bumming radford on twitter buy my japanese internet house 12 darkside donk deadout didn't they do this in 1986? dominic did a tefl course dominic does streetslang esperanto juggalo even trilliam got bored of this fun with balloons i write for the guardian id rather play fifa im dom indie nuum just house innit know the bubble middle class 30 somethings talk house nuff nuum for continuum radford is older than my dad show me the dance top knot trilliam was right trilliam was wrong upgrunt house who the fuck is mark radford words hurt
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
Ahhh nice one, had been after an ID on this one ever since I heard it on one of the Aaron Vybe/Perch sets months ago. Had assumed it was a homegrown Strange Static thing.
Monster indeed.
great read from you all. yesterday, i was listening to mark radford's 2012 rinse mix. the scene has travelled a long, long way in a very short time
deep tech is definitely not the music pinch is talking about, i think. i'm not sure if he's even acutely aware of the deep tech scene discussed here... he's aiming more at the ex-dubstep guys going house, no?
datwun: thanks for the machine, it's great!
deep tech is definitely not the music pinch is talking about, i think. i'm not sure if he's even acutely aware of the deep tech scene discussed here... he's aiming more at the ex-dubstep guys going house, no?
datwun: thanks for the machine, it's great!
think people are being a little harsh on pinch here. pretty sure its been said in this thread hes been cutting hugo massien dubs??? 'I wonder if the effect Pinch is talking about is an effect of dance music becoming so mainstream in the era of Boiler Room and Warehouse Project etc.' << this. natural when so many people are involved, with some inevitably having different tastes/aesthetics, to feel little affinity to what's going on.
@rudewhy, thanks for putting into words why going to motion over a good 4/5 years has been a weirdly alienating experience better than i ever could. and i'll take 'tech house' over faux metalheadz 'uk bass' anyday.
@rudewhy, thanks for putting into words why going to motion over a good 4/5 years has been a weirdly alienating experience better than i ever could. and i'll take 'tech house' over faux metalheadz 'uk bass' anyday.
benjybars
village elder.
yeah i think it's clear from that interview that deep tech isn't really on Pinch's radar.. and as he says himself he's getting on a bit now and isn't all that clued up about what's going on in clubs etc. i enjoyed the interview.
ok - really bait questions from someone in their 30s who's just had a baby and will probably never go raving again: is there any overlap between the jackin crowd and the deep tech crowd? is jackin still even a thing? are non-shufflers allowed on the dance floor at deep tech nights?!
ok - really bait questions from someone in their 30s who's just had a baby and will probably never go raving again: is there any overlap between the jackin crowd and the deep tech crowd? is jackin still even a thing? are non-shufflers allowed on the dance floor at deep tech nights?!
wise
bare BARE BONES
I've got two kids and i'm forty next year, still go raving
Yeah man, you can rave at any age, Mark Radford's practically the king of the scene and he's 40 with kids!!
Jackin self-desolved into 'house & bass' which at one point referred to 'jackin without the bait samples' and now referrs to nothing and everything lol. When I played at 02:31 in August there were a couple of deep tech bits (apart from my set which was pretty much exclusively this stuff), a lot of garagey housey bits, some old jackin bangers, and basically the sense of a scene with absolutely no sonic direction whatsoever. That said the vibez in Birmingham on a low key, off week event with no headliner were still miles above those at the massive Audio Rehab show at MoS, though the music at the latter was transcendentally good while the music at the former was functional rave fodder. Brummys are better people innit.
Lots of people shuffling at 02:31 as well, though the levels were far, far lower than in London lol. I'd say there's some overlap in fan base between Jackin and deep tech in terms of '17-21 year olds who just wanna get fucked and listen to house music' but deep tech extends into a big road following which jackin never had. MoS had a lot of tourists and students, but a number of the deep tech things I've been to have had majority black audiences, whereas in Birmingham I'd say you're talking more 80-20, 90-10 white-black. Though there are nuff videos of 16 year olds shuffling on instagram and I gave my best efforts into chatting up two fit French 18 year olds at Rehab lolol overall I'd say the average age of deep tech raves is a good 4-5-6 years older than jackin raves because of all the old ravers that the house scene has brought back into the fold.
Beyond the fact that this current deep tech/house wave is making a big difference in changing some people's attitudes to gay people for the better (the vauxhall connection, the fact that it's house music), socially the most exciting thing for me about this scene is how it's breaking down age barriers in really kind of remarkable ways....
Firefly/ Tentative Andy: No problem! Perch clued me into that one, and it's the first Jack n Danny tune I really rated!! The bass reminds me of Funkystepz' Fuller of all things..
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truth
i think there's something to be said in the differences between how the dubstep community converted to house and the grime community
i.e. the rough perhaps ameaturish aesthetic in the deep tech scene opposed to the highly polished and savvy take by guys like ramadanman, scuba etc
with the dubstep guys there was more kind of, intelligent awareness, not that the grime guys don't have the same, not that say one scene is more switched on in the other but i feel the dubstep guys were much more aware of formula, i.e. what to do not what do and how it ties in with critical reception and how the most "forward thinking" house is supposed to sound i.e. the appreciation of the berlin guys, villalobos etc
i think the beauty of house is how at a first glance it does seem like a big amorphous blob, i agree with its if u wanna say lowest common denominator credentials, on first impression there is no concept behind it or ideology etc, it's just extremely accessible dance music hence the ravers rudewhy refers to, pilled up students, lads etc are flocking to it in their droves
cocoon, dirtybird, hot creations - these are three labels that sometimes inhabit the same zones but uno, it's like saying digital mystikz, skull candy and [insert dubstep label] are the same, it's not true, they may be of the same genre but the sound is distinctly different
at the end of the day deep tech is "Just house", its house with the london pulse but it's house, and i think that to say terms like "just house" like it's a bad thing shows the prejudice from the jump
a lot of the tunes posted in here say from the 60 page mark onwards, people are asking for tune ids on american and european tunes, yeah it's because they fit in with this music but if deep tech didn't exist these tunes still would
but like im saying the beauty of house is if you approach it with the same kind of reverence, respect and keen attitude you might have for jungle/hardcore whatever it unravels itself, and it is a very big universe with lots of differences,
as i said in an earlier post a lot of people have had different entry points to house and depending on what it is it's gonna colour your perception i.e. hearing a couple of house tunes in a joy orbison set on boiler room, raving with your bedrins at warehouse project or eastern electrics, or being a southport vet and going ibiza to get your mind blown musically not in a drug related way
like rudewhy is saying there are a million sub genres/micro cultures out there and if you can see house beyond being just house you'll find plenty of them there
also c/s the clearing dancefloors point, trying to make music radical as opposed to it happening organically, like blackdown saying "Putting snares and claps in unusual places", that seemed to be the MO with dubstep when it interacted with house
neway im rambling, hitting siesta today so will make a post when i come back but im sure it'll just be it was hard in so many words
Agree with Trilliam that there's a knee jerk anti house prejudice which shuts doors as all prejudices do. But I reckon a certain skeptisism or equivocation re: house is actually one of the things that makes UK music unique. I mean, all dance music comes from house, and UK dance scenes have periodically dipped into US and Euro house for inspiration, but they've also always involved a movement away from those inspirations as well.
'House' in the the widest sense of 4x4 dance music which isn't techno is probably the biggest genre or cluster of genres in dance music and like a lot of genres, the majority is bad (just like, spend time on beatport for evidence). I'd say more bad, tepid and uninspiring music has been made on account of /too much/ respect for house, or at least too much respect for certain times and eras of house (Chicago 80s, New York/New Jersey 90s etc. - even though there was of course loads of amazing music from those eras) than has been made on account of brushing house off as boring.
I feel the spectre of house as something sophisticated, smooth and boring is actually a really useful one in terms of keeping producers interesting when they're making house.
'House' in the the widest sense of 4x4 dance music which isn't techno is probably the biggest genre or cluster of genres in dance music and like a lot of genres, the majority is bad (just like, spend time on beatport for evidence). I'd say more bad, tepid and uninspiring music has been made on account of /too much/ respect for house, or at least too much respect for certain times and eras of house (Chicago 80s, New York/New Jersey 90s etc. - even though there was of course loads of amazing music from those eras) than has been made on account of brushing house off as boring.
I feel the spectre of house as something sophisticated, smooth and boring is actually a really useful one in terms of keeping producers interesting when they're making house.
ye there is tons of shit on beatport, when i think of house i think of house (tech, deep, soulful etc) and techno, where as trance, edm/big room r something different
agree about the aping of chicago, detroit
here's a comment from that RA article that summarises dubstep attitudes to house
"House ruined a lot of innovative music in the UK. thats not a diss to house music. but as soon as that become popular all the UK's heritage went out the window. Nice to see people trying to adapt but still innovate."
the last line in particular shows how people can make such sweeping statements whilst being totally clueless
this comment as well as a good one
"Always this endless talk about cutting edge, innovation and so on. Sometimes producers would benefit from chilling out a bit and taking their time developing a more personal sound."
one thing ill never get though, this country fell in love with house in the early eighties/nineties, the amount of shit thats been written, filmed, crystallised, it's like where did all the love go
the darkness and deepness present in deep tech is of course present in a lot of house, here's a set by georgia girl, she's one of the first london djs i started checking for, used to go b2b with dominique danielle after radford on a friday
she dont play deep tech and she doesnt really need to, first 15-20 minutes of this is as dark and groovy as anything
https://soundcloud.com/eatmyb3ats/gg-034
agree about the aping of chicago, detroit
here's a comment from that RA article that summarises dubstep attitudes to house
"House ruined a lot of innovative music in the UK. thats not a diss to house music. but as soon as that become popular all the UK's heritage went out the window. Nice to see people trying to adapt but still innovate."
the last line in particular shows how people can make such sweeping statements whilst being totally clueless
this comment as well as a good one
"Always this endless talk about cutting edge, innovation and so on. Sometimes producers would benefit from chilling out a bit and taking their time developing a more personal sound."
one thing ill never get though, this country fell in love with house in the early eighties/nineties, the amount of shit thats been written, filmed, crystallised, it's like where did all the love go
the darkness and deepness present in deep tech is of course present in a lot of house, here's a set by georgia girl, she's one of the first london djs i started checking for, used to go b2b with dominique danielle after radford on a friday
she dont play deep tech and she doesnt really need to, first 15-20 minutes of this is as dark and groovy as anything
https://soundcloud.com/eatmyb3ats/gg-034
I've noticed this too, social progression beats musical progression anyway right lol
v true
I've used that phrase but I mean it as a criticism of the use of the phrase by people to dismiss deep tech. not as a criticism of general house itself as music. Only speaking for myself but same is probly true for most people here?...
I can get into general or 'just house' w/e such as certain Hot Creations stuff etc. as much as anyone. Whats wack is when its overly and self-conciously retro, as a tribute to the past and obv never as good. I don't think deep tech is retro at all tho, & certainly not in that way.
also, that phrase 'just house' usually comes up in convos if your trying to tell someone 'theres this new thing' but they say 'well its just house'... those same people often still love the music as well as other house, just are hesitant to proclaim it as some wild new form, which no ones saying it is really (in the sense that jungle was for instance)
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Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Ironically, the anti-pinch sentiments here represent a collision of two longstanding Dissensus prejudices: against Dubstep and against House.
I think house is bucked against in certain sections of the UK scene because it came to represent the Mainstream during the 90s, with scenes like Jungle and 2-Step e.g. seeming to define themselves in opposition to the baseline simplicity of 4x4 beats. Certainly, Ive always found house nights to be comparatively pleasant atmospherically, and comparatively boring musically, as compared to DNB / Dubstep / grime etc. nights. At least until I reached Frequency.
Of course all this is just personal taste converted into prejudice. If someone thinks Move D is a better DJ than DJ Q, e.g. who am I to tell them they're wrong? Some people love to get in that groove of a minimal house or techno tune for hours and hours (I do too if I'm on some good pills). I prefer music that hits hard and makes people will out, personally. I've got a lot of repressed anger in me, maybe that's why?
The thing I object to nowadays is the rhetoric you get from proponents of "deep" music, writing off stuff that isn't dark or atmospheric as inferior, and also rating stuff that just isn't all that exciting because it ticks these "deep" boxes. I see again I'm heading into personal taste really but then this is music not science...
Anyway I wanted to say that the discussion in the last few pages has been really interesting and it made me proud to be on dissensus even tho it can be frustrating sometimes. Also just realised I missed Mark Radford's show tonight.
I think house is bucked against in certain sections of the UK scene because it came to represent the Mainstream during the 90s, with scenes like Jungle and 2-Step e.g. seeming to define themselves in opposition to the baseline simplicity of 4x4 beats. Certainly, Ive always found house nights to be comparatively pleasant atmospherically, and comparatively boring musically, as compared to DNB / Dubstep / grime etc. nights. At least until I reached Frequency.
Of course all this is just personal taste converted into prejudice. If someone thinks Move D is a better DJ than DJ Q, e.g. who am I to tell them they're wrong? Some people love to get in that groove of a minimal house or techno tune for hours and hours (I do too if I'm on some good pills). I prefer music that hits hard and makes people will out, personally. I've got a lot of repressed anger in me, maybe that's why?
The thing I object to nowadays is the rhetoric you get from proponents of "deep" music, writing off stuff that isn't dark or atmospheric as inferior, and also rating stuff that just isn't all that exciting because it ticks these "deep" boxes. I see again I'm heading into personal taste really but then this is music not science...
Anyway I wanted to say that the discussion in the last few pages has been really interesting and it made me proud to be on dissensus even tho it can be frustrating sometimes. Also just realised I missed Mark Radford's show tonight.
Words can't describe how sick it was or nothing particularly of note?
This anti-new grime hate is getting dull. As if it's an either/or thing... So many sweeping assumptions being made trying to second guess producer's backgrounds, class, race etc, it's complete and utter bullshit. One of the worst tendencies of this forum is to romanticise the black, working class london life, and to hold it up as some banner of purity. So some people made sweeping, dismissive comments about deep/tech...let's do the same about other types of music without a hint of irony. It's perfectly ok to like both and there is absolutely no reason why they sit in opposition to each other here.
theres good parts bad parts n some pretty ugly parts tbh
cud never say i didnt enjoy myself doe
Obviously wanna hear about the ugly parts lol.
got to say the vibe at all the deep tech raves I've been to has always been... ravey. Saw a scuffle at that party me and u went to back last year, and yeah, the crowd's been more road than parties in other scenes I've been to, but can't say I've ever felt out of place or at all unsafe at any of the ones Ive been to. Maybe I'm just going to the wrong ones lol
got to say the vibe at all the deep tech raves I've been to has always been... ravey. Saw a scuffle at that party me and u went to back last year, and yeah, the crowd's been more road than parties in other scenes I've been to, but can't say I've ever felt out of place or at all unsafe at any of the ones Ive been to. Maybe I'm just going to the wrong ones lol