Ukraine, Russia etc.

[IdleRich]

It's well known that simply the act of repeating a spurious claim while refuting it can convey a kind of unwarranted legitimacy.

At this point Trump and Musk have no credibility outside MAGA and their claims can just be dismissed or even ignored until they produce evidence.

Maybe they are right about Zelensky and are simply the cunts who cried wolf but seeing as the other day Trump claimed they had sent $350bn to Ukraine and then yesterday admitted it was only $100bn it seems unlikely...

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It's well known that simply the act of repeating a spurious claim while refuting it can convey a kind of unwarranted legitimacy.

At this point Trump and Musk have no credibility outside MAGA and their claims can just be dismissed or even ignored until they produce evidence.

Maybe they are right about Zelensky and are simply the cunts who cried wolf but seeing as the other day Trump claimed they had sent $350bn to Ukraine and then yesterday admitted it was only $100bn it seems unlikely...

Refuting it with evidence would be an easy win, and would have shown that Trump was talking out of his posterior, before his $350bn was questioned...which you're saying shouldn't have been questioned!

Before this war the western media all agreed that Ukraine was a corrupt basket case and the NY Times called out endemic Nazism there; the media should try to show how these things have seemingly been wiped out by the magic wand of Putin's invasion.

 

[IdleRich]

Refuting it with evidence would be an easy win, and would have shown that Trump was talking out of his posterior, before his $350bn was questioned...which you're saying shouldn't have been questioned!

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been questioned, I'm just pointing out that Trump changed his story and made it even less credible on his own.

There is no need to and no value in showing Trump speaks from his arse, it's been shown again and again and maga keep slurping it down.

Before this war the western media all agreed that Ukraine was a corrupt basket case and the NY Times called out endemic Nazism there; the media should try to show how these things have seemingly been wiped out by the magic wand of Putin's invasion.

like i said he might even be right but everyone has stopped listening cos he lies all the time. There is a lesson there for those who can learn.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been questioned, I'm just pointing out that Trump changed his story and made it even less credible on his own.

There is no need to and no value in showing Trump speaks from his arse, it's been shown again and again and maga keep slurping it down.



like i said he might even be right but everyone has stopped listening cos he lies all the time. There is a lesson there for those who can learn.

Given my last comment, Trump's statement isn't even required to prompt a closer look at goings on.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I've no idea what the road map is for Russia, from Europe's perspective. They keep saying we can't appease Putin because Hitler (Hitler being the only notable historical figure with whom everybody else must be compared both subsequent and antecedent, reverberating backwards through history) but Hitler didn't have 4,000 nuclear missiles and a low risk of fallout should he smash them into Western Europe. Yet again, best is the enemy of better.

 

[Murphy]

Do you get out much?

 

[IdleRich]

The UN has adopted Ukraine’s resolution condemning Russian aggression and demanding the immediate withdrawal of Putin’s forces, marking the war’s third anniversary. The U.S. joined Russia, North Korea, Belarus, and Hungary in opposing the resolution.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Can I just ask why anyone is still engaging with Biscuits as if he were arguing in good faith at this point? This is someone with the gall to slander Ukraine as "Nazi-infested" while defending its invasion by a fascist dictatorship, and who apparently considers anyone less keen than he is on the ongoing genocide of two million people a de-facto Hamas supporter, and therefore an 'antisemite', while siding with a global political movement whose members are now openly doing this:





I mean, he's either the wind-up merchant of the century so far, severely mentally ill, or a bit of both, right?

 

[version]

This business of political figures ironically adopting the Nazi salute to wind people up is prime 'What are we like now?' material.

 

[Mr. Tea]

This business of political figures ironically adopting the Nazi salute to wind people up is prime 'What are we like now?' material.

Is it even all that 'ironic' any more, though? Bannon is a self-described white nationalist, Musk was ranting the other day about "parasites"...

 

[luka]

i think, personally, that theres a feedback thing in operation. you give the people the amount of fascism they seem to want. if they lap it up you give them a bit more, if they start kicking and screaming you dial it back, you hide behind ambiguity, you do it smirking, you test the waters, not becasue you necessarily have a grand plan yourself, but becasue youre responding too, you want power, you want to see what has a hold on people, its only semi conscious

 

[luka]

with someone like bannon obviously hes got a fully mapped out project for joining up far right movements across the world its more conscious, but for the maga crowd more generally i think theres a movement towards fascism that is more instinctive, like fascism is an attractor, something that provides coherence, and maga moves towards it but always in relationship to how much people seem to want it, so its not imposed all at once as an ideological program, but reciprocaly, kind of like what we talk about in the teaching machine.

thats not very articulate but it makes perfect sense.

 

[version]

Is it even all that 'ironic' any more, though? Bannon is a self-described white nationalist, Musk was ranting the other day about "parasites"...

I think it's ironic in the sense that these Fox News presenters, etc. don't seem to be doing it out of loyalty to Hitler or adherence to Nazi doctrine, but because it's become a meme on their side and they know it winds up their opponents. This is what I mean by it being prime 'What are we like now?' material. It feels like a perfect example of things having become so rotten, so devalued and emptied of meaning, that we've got public figures treating a gesture as serious as that as just part of some big game.

 

[Mr. Tea]

i think, personally, that theres a feedback thing in operation. you give the people the amount of fascism they seem to want. if they lap it up you give them a bit more, if they start kicking and screaming you dial it back, you hide behind ambiguity, you do it smirking, you test the waters, not becasue you necessarily have a grand plan yourself, but becasue youre responding too, you want power, you want to see what has a hold on people, its only semi conscious

Well that's the thing. I think most of these people lean more towards being self-interested grifters than die-hard ideologues intent on establishing a Fourth Reich. You only have to look at Vance, whose wife is Indian and who once called Trump "America's Hitler." OTOH, the two categories obviously aren't mutually exclusive. I'm sure there were tons of industrialists in Germany in the 30s who were fine with Hitler's policies because it was lucrative for them, and who privately regarded him as a total nutter, but who also hated Jews and gays and foreigners.

 

[luka]

well, yeah, but i also have a more kinda mystica trippy sense of it wanting to actualise itself. thats part of what i mean by it being an attractor too. like it exerts an actual pull on both the people and the politicans etc

 

[luka]

thats why it keeps lifting peoples arms up like that

 

[luka]

they know their arms are lifting, but they dont know why. they deceive themselves about what is happening.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think it's ironic in the sense that these Fox News presenters, etc. don't seem to be doing it out of loyalty to Hitler or adherence to Nazi doctrine, but because it's become a meme on their side and they know it winds up their opponents. This is what I mean by it being prime 'What are we like now?' material. It feels like a perfect example of things having become so rotten, so devalued and emptied of meaning, that we've got public figures treating a gesture as serious as that as just part of some big game.

While that's true, it's not happening in isolation, is it? Look at policies aimed specifically at disenfranchising non-white people, or rolling back just about every progressive bit of legislation on race, gender, disability and so on since the 1960s.

 

[luka]

if you keep doing the salute and people keep responding to it you might find youve started something that exceeds your control pretty quickly.

 

[luka]

you might find that musks spastic one becomes, after several iterations, a more formal one, one without the ambiguity. you already see its stabiilised toself once bannon does it. its testing the waters for itself. how far can we go with this?