why is ambient so popular now
- Thread starter luka
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
this is a much more useful approach than good/bad, I think, in fact with all art in general.
the most difficult thing is to make art that gets a reaction from people, especially now with the literally endless amount of content out there
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
also every Alice Coltrane record, tho tbf she was an actual convert, but still
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
but ya anything can potentially be good, anything can be bad
fair play, that was intended in a loving manner anyway
fair play, that was intended in a loving manner anyway
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, I am become as a resounding gong" -Paul the Apostle, explaining ambient to the Corinthians
there is an interesting bit to me, the codification of ambient as a genre with parameters, attributes, boundaries. like, ambience is the natural state of experiencing sound. music is among other things a fixing of sound in time/place. Eno is performing a detournement of music as fixed thing, but at the same time creating the framework of a new, artificial structure. this is a complicated way of explaining why I'm usually not into post-Eno self-consciously ambient music, and also maybe one answer to Corpsey's original question about why it feels more difficult to figure out whether things are good or not.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
what I mean is, genres are useful because you need ways to organize information
if you describe or listen to a death metal, grime, disco, whatever record, there are rules. they can be broken or followed, but they exist.
ambient has no rules, anything can be ambient, i.e. 10 hours of fan oscillation noises or whatever
it's why people + critics struggle more with abstract art in general, I'd guess
if you describe or listen to a death metal, grime, disco, whatever record, there are rules. they can be broken or followed, but they exist.
ambient has no rules, anything can be ambient, i.e. 10 hours of fan oscillation noises or whatever
it's why people + critics struggle more with abstract art in general, I'd guess
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
And that returns me to that idea of ambient disguising it's own composition (so that the more composed it seems the less compelling) - I really like listening to the Aelion harp album recommended on a blog or summat I found through this thread, and - aside from setting up the harps, and picking the eight minutes of sound - there's no composition going on. So that it feels strange to praise it. Because discussing music (not listening to it, necessarily) is about praising or criticizing the artist's choices.
There's some discussion earlier in this thread about the definition of ambient.
As you've noted, there is a complicating factor with ambient in general which goes to the core of the definition of music itself. Can noise/drones etc. be considered music at all?
There's only one worthwhile definition of music and that is 'organised sounds', and in this context, the intent, the packaging the presentation of the sounds all become important factors.
As you've noted, there is a complicating factor with ambient in general which goes to the core of the definition of music itself. Can noise/drones etc. be considered music at all?
There's only one worthwhile definition of music and that is 'organised sounds', and in this context, the intent, the packaging the presentation of the sounds all become important factors.
Aeolian harps are a good example, an early forerunner of generative music, but of course, someone made those harps - designed the cords, valves & tubes in order to create particular sounds, so the intent and purpose is there.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
well sure + before that aleatory music. 4'33" is conceptually both the beginning and end of "ambient music", surely, and it definitely fits into "organization of sound with purpose"
there is choice in all music, composition being only one area of choice
personally I don't feel I'm criticizing or praising an artist's choices. I know (usually) whether or not I like something, but I don't pass judgement.
art can have moral, political, etc dimensions that are good/bad but I very firmly believe all aesthetics are subjective taste.
ambient music is more amorphous than other music so naturally its appeal/lack thereof is also more amorphous.
there is choice in all music, composition being only one area of choice
personally I don't feel I'm criticizing or praising an artist's choices. I know (usually) whether or not I like something, but I don't pass judgement.
art can have moral, political, etc dimensions that are good/bad but I very firmly believe all aesthetics are subjective taste.
ambient music is more amorphous than other music so naturally its appeal/lack thereof is also more amorphous.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
for example, I'm definitely into lo-fi/no-fi aesthetics, across the arts. intentional (or not) badness. not exclusively, but extensively, tho I also like plenty of fancy high art whatever.
surely if the last 60 years of popular culture have proved anything they've proved that there is no such as good or bad art
Gerhard Richter once said that everything since Duchamp (a touchstone for Cage) was a readymade, even if it was hand-painted
in the same way I think you could say every record since Eno is an ambient record, even if it isn't
surely if the last 60 years of popular culture have proved anything they've proved that there is no such as good or bad art
Gerhard Richter once said that everything since Duchamp (a touchstone for Cage) was a readymade, even if it was hand-painted
in the same way I think you could say every record since Eno is an ambient record, even if it isn't
I was thinking of that when I was posting actually.
Not so sure. 4'33' isn't an organisation of sound per se. Its an attempt to make an audience view non-organised sound in the context of performance. You might say its the origin of environmental music, or perhaps an attempt to force the audience to consider a mode of ambient listening.
Satie would be the first conceptual definition of ambient as background music - and the one that's stuck unfortunately, but again it depends on your definition. The original new age bods would probably point you back to the organum and other devotionals.
Im probably a bad person to ask about quality btw as my interaction with ambient is completely warped by DJ'ng. I'll listen to the most appalling new age with the aim of finding an angle - of how it might add a twinkle to the surface of some Kevin Drumm noise-drone or offer a sprinkle of light after some austere Radigue.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I was thinking that the organization was Cage's specific decision not to have any composed sounds, an organization of lack of intentional sound if you will. However, I can also see your reasoning.
I know Cage was following predecessors, most prominently Satie, but definitely he took that idea to its logical conclusion. I mean specifically in an academic, conceptual context.
That's why I keep making the "ambient" vs ambient distinction, as irritating as I'm sure it is
100% drone/ambient has existed for a very, very long time (and without needing to resort to any new age pseudohistory). Byzantine ison chanting always gets mentioned, Indian classical music, but it goes back much further still. I'm no expert but I know there's a bunch of ethnomusicology on shamans + indigenous music mimicking natural sounds, most famously probably in throat-singing. I wonder if anyone has ever written about conceptual birth of music as a separate category from naturally occurring sound.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
never apologize, my dude
anyway hasn't new age been rehabilitated cool for like 5 years now, both to listen to and as inspiration/influence to cite?
everything is recuperated eventually. in fact I'd suggest we are currently in a true golden age of musical recuperation.
There is a distinction to be made between original late 60's - 70's 80s private issue new age - devotional, meditative, eastern influenced, deadly earnest & sincere and often very good & late 70s -80s/90s new age as a cynical homeopathic CD compilation crystal marketing aid. You could make a case of the original new age being a mirror to the eastern influenced avant classical origins of ambient, Cage, Riley, Young etc.
But yes, it is enjoying a renaissance as serious music and an aesthetic now - and perhaps rightfully so, there's a lot of new age in Kosmische, prog outliers and genuine synth experimentation, and indeed in Eno's formulation of ambient.
Absolutely, its arguably the oldest music, or perhaps the second oldest. The drum and the drone.