josef k

[vimothy]

the alt right is a tawdry alternative and also a shit party you wouldn't want to attend anyway http://groupnameforgrapejuice.blogspot.com/2017/08/broke-and-woke.html?m=1

ofc it is. I agree with some of what znores says but he appears to have a rather rose tinted view of the "original" counter-culture, which should be regarded with just as much scepticism as he regards the alt-right. it didnt seamlessly merge with technocratic capitalism for purely accidental reasons

 

[luka]

Perhaps, perhaps. At the very least it left behind some kulchur. And that's worth something.

 

[vimothy]

Josef was derided not for being subversibly non-conformist but for adopting a Liberal centrist position

trying to understand the alt-right is not the liberal-centrist position. the alt-right arises from contradictions within the liberal-centrist position

 

[vimothy]

That's why his actions were just more fodder for the alt right media.

this is the logic of escalation. it's circular - like saying, "X should be interpreted in a certain way, and given that X is interpreted in a certain way, then ..."

 

[luka]

Not at all. It's using reality as currently configured as starting point, not some ideal pixie land where fire doesn't burn when you play with it

 

[luka]

If you make a political intervention you have to have some idea of the potential consequences. There's a disingenuousness here.

 

[vimothy]

what you're saying is purely escalatory

 

[vimothy]

even if you try to step outside of it, that's just as bad somehow, perhaps worse

 

[luka]

You're being willfully naive. I don't buy it.

 

[luka]

It was an act of political theatre clearly destined to be subsumed into the existing alt right narrative. It didn't imagine a way out. It added fuel to the fire. It's part of it, not outside it.

 

[luka]

Left wing people are hysterical grotesques of below average intelligence and you can easily make a freak show out of them. It attracts all kinds of malcontents and inadequates. All sorts of people with a grudge against life. All sorts of frauds and manipulators. All sorts of resentful trolls. All sorts of shrill martinets. When you draw a line down the middle of the entire population and call one half left and the other right this kind of thing is inevitable. They're cunts all of them, fucking horrible cunts I hate them all, brown bread bicycle cunts but am I going to go on Tommy Robinson TV vim? No I'm fucking not

 

[luka]

Priggish moralising hypocritical scratchy jersey cunts constantly grandstanding. But that's my team.

 

[vimothy]

It was an act of political theatre clearly destined to be subsumed into the existing alt right narrative

that's just the logic of escalation, which is what I've been saying

 

[vimothy]

but it wasnt *designed* to be subsumed

 

[luka]

That is why I said I was being reasonable and generous, by assuming it wasn't designed that way, that it was naïveté and stupidity.

 

[vimothy]

They're cunts all of them, fucking horrible cunts I hate them all, brown bread bicycle cunts but am I going to go on Tommy Robinson TV vim? No I'm fucking not

but it doesnt matter does it, when its your turn the fact that you wouldnt go on tommy robinson tv wont save you

 

[vimothy]

nobody cares what your actual positions are

 

[luka]

I don't go around asking for it. Provocation is one of his tools. It's part of how he tries to make his points. You know this if you have read any of his stuff.

 

[droid]

trying to understand the alt-right is not the liberal-centrist position. the alt-right arises from contradictions within the liberal-centrist position

Er... so why do we have had countless puff pieces on Nazis in the liberal media? Racists on question time? The hard right running rampant on the internet with virtual impunity.

Liberals instinctively curve towards the right given half a chance. Josef's free speech/dialogue stance is a virtual cliche in that context. The misunderstanding is the belief that dialogue is desired by the right when what they crave is exposure and propaganda opportunities, which is why no-platforming exists.

 

[luka]

I don't see you joining in the theatre. Why not? Cos you're too smart/cautious. Cos you know perfectly well what happens.