I want to talk to you but not when you're in cringe mode trying to push a projected point onto us that is just a kneejerk anti-intellectual prejudice. like say Autechre is a shadow of Xenakis like Matt did, but you'll struggle because as mvtuant said their interviews contradict that. you can argue that they aren't aware of their own weaknesses, that is another story. but expecting two people in their late 40s to be clubbing week in week out is daft. and who says they were ever against jungle? they never did drill and bass, not like afx/mu-ziq did. and actually even if they wereagainst jungle, that's a strength, at least they didn't try and co-opt it for the idm crowd but pursued their own trajectory. they don't even fit into that scene. neither does vladislav delay or mark fell.
like, apologies for coming across as so antagonistic but I'm sick of this forum just being an endless variation on minstrellsy. we should be able to talk about the semiotics of the music without always centring its fashion. that's what the (predominantly white) woke fact mag/truants types do. hence any music made by black queer people (garnish some poverty tourism for extra measure) is automatically laudible. people become political objects for policy makers, not complex beings in and of themselves.