Conceptronica

[padraig (u.s.)]

I agree with you that truly lumpen scenes are usually more inherently resistant

metal is a good example, the lower-brow (self-consciously or not) the better

it varies by subgenre but there remains I think a defiantly uncool streak that's harder to commodify, true heshers

it doesn't mean you can't sell it, or sell different things to the same people, just that it resists sanding the rough patches off better

the same way a neighborhood with a higher density of pre-existing property ownership will take longer to gentrify

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

not opposing today's consumer capitalism with folk song from medieval Russia

definitely not

for one I don't think I'm even oppositional in the sense. I have - or am formulating - a critique, but I don't have answers.

if you look you'll see never say X is bad, or evil, or whatever. aside from the crudeness, I don't know if that's true. I'm trying to describe the world so I can understand it better.

if I look at anything, including history, it's to try to better understand existing now.

commodification, rationalizing of time, capture of time + space for capital - these are now and all evidence points toward them being the future, but worse (or just more, depending on your POV)

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I don't understand why, if it was possible a very short amount of time ago, under very similar conditions, why it should be impossible now.

this one at least I can answer pretty clearly, by quoting myself from the counterculture thread

a counterculture exists in the breathing space between that which it opposes and repression and/or recuperation

we live in a time in which the efficiency of both is so staggering that it makes it difficult (at least for me, tho seemingly many) to conceive of something that would escape them

facial recognition software + (ever more) viral marketing

in other words, technological advancement + the resulted/related cultural changes

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

the other answer is that it actually wasn't possible, even then

the 60s counterculture was ultimately a total failure, and it was recuperated fairly quickly

all that's happened is that the recuperation process is much faster, and carried out ever more by the creators themselves

being an artist has always been to some extent about self-branding and self-promotion, but now it's an endless grind of almost nothing but that ("on all available platforms")

another thing big thing is the complete dissolution of the difference between work and leisure time; all time not working is time you could be working (tweeting, read emails, whatever)

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

i.e.

this stuff arrives purpose-made to be sold in the same breath it proclaims it isn't

 

[luka]

A total failure in that it didn't precipitate a revolution you mean? That's a very all or nothing stance. I think we want to be able to say why we favour some commodities over others (jungle-cool. Conceptronica-uncool) don't we?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

A total failure in that it didn't precipitate a revolution you mean?

no (you have to stop imputing things to me that I didn't actually say), tho "total" might be harsh tbf

it's hard to say exactly what the counterculture's aims were, so it's hard to say to what degree they were met.

it's also hard to say exactly where it's boundaries are (like, to what degree were feminism, civil rights/black liberation, etc part of the counterculture or not?)

but in general I think it's fair to call it a pretty resounding failure

 

[luka]

I wasnt putting words in your mouth I was asking a question. I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from. You have these very absolutist views which make it hard to draw what I think of as necessary distinctions. Everything is very black and white with you. Very hardline. Which, I guess, is why the anarcho punk thing appealed. It offered that hardline absolutism.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

either way, it's not really the point, I was just answering your question

of course we all favor some things over others

I'm saying, if you're talking about culture existing independently, you have to reckon with its inevitable commodification - if it's worth selling, someone will sell it

the ultimate problem with conceptronica is the art itself is uncompelling

but the art student part of it galls more - the seeming disingenuousness of highly educated people selling chic concept art about the awfulness of the very things they profit from

it's very art world. but it's also a much more uncharitable critique to make, because we're all guilty of the same hypocrisy to some degree, it's unavoidable.

 

[luka]

Yeah the music's rubbish and art students are annoying. I suppose now I'm more interested in the other thing you're talking about. When I used the word co-option I was talking about somethjng similar and probably both do with refining our sense of exactly what we mean as its a bit too nebulous at present.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

You have these very absolutist views which make it hard to draw what I think of as necessary distinctions. Everything is very black and white with you. Very hardline.

absolutely none of that is accurate, at all

15+ years ago, in those anarchopunk days, yes. but that's true for many people, isn't? the certainties of youth dissolve and gain complexity as one ages.

 

[luka]

in theory.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Yeah the music's rubbish and art students are annoying

the first is the only thing that really matters

I thought blissblogger's article did a pretty good job of separating the art from the artists, but I'm not surprised people take it personally

speaking of the music tho - does anyone here besides blissblogger enjoy any of this? presumably. if so, what? why? does it get to you on a visceral level? if so, how?

I would be curious to hear

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

as the last line of the article says, it's both a difficult and noble ambition. I just don't think it's realized.

if the music isn't succeeding as music, what's the point? there's better art in various other mediums and/or philosophy dealing with the same topics

 

[luka]

He doesn't really like it he just doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[luka]

Corpsey and Barty and version all really like SOPHIE. Maybe thirdform too I can't remember

 

[sadmanbarty]

Corpsey and Barty and version all really like SOPHIE. Maybe thirdform too I can't remember

I’ve been called many things on this forum- racist, ableist, a bully- but NEVER, EVER have I been called a conceptronica fan! Outrageous!

 

[luka]

Hehehehe

 

[sadmanbarty]

Nobody likes conceptronicA. Not the people who make it (hence all the effort put into trying to sell it), not uncle Si (he even says it’s so shit he can only listen to it once).

It’s a music that nobody likes, that has no merit that 20 people on Twitter have managed to generate a completely unwarranted fuss about.

Dissensus has fallen for the con.

 

[luka]

Barty said this is his favourite one.