Hades Presents: MJ vs. Prince

MJ vs. Prince

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
S

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
version said:
Who else fees like that?
Click to expand...

again there's a pool of them. elvis costello, pre-ambient eno, lou reed, bowie, etc.

but what's interesting about clipse and the more intereting stuff from prince is that they attain that distance without it being pastiche (and in fact when its an incredibly unique sound).
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
sadmanbarty said:
again there's a pool of them. elvis costello, pre-ambient eno, lou reed, bowie, etc.

but what's interesting about clipse and the more intereting stuff from prince is that they attain that distance without it being pastiche (and in fact when its an incredibly unique sound).
Click to expand...

With Prince and Bowie and Kate Bush it's a theatricality which can be really really good (although more usually it's annoying) It's not naturalistic. It's Laurence Olivier acting. But we've been through all this before and I'm going to bed.
 
S

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
version said:
Does pretend music have any pros or is it all cons?
Click to expand...

clipse for example is fascinating. the production is truly amazing. they're exploring all sorts of avenues unavailable in real music. so as intellectual exercises they're phenomenal. as sonic experiments they're exquisite.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
yeah I'm of course 100% Prince

I don't think it's generational. luka is ~5 (can't remember exactly) years older than me, I'm only a couple years older (I believe) than Corpsey.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
sadmanbarty said:
prince is clinical. there's a distance to it. its not music, its musicology. its theory. he's not expressing an emotion, he's playing a fm7. prince is a sessions musician, jackson an artist.
Click to expand...
I can see preferring MJ for many reasons - even simply because he was MJ, as luka says - but this is a deeply wrong take

I'm at a loss how can anyone listen to Purple Rain - the LP or the song - and think this even remotely

as if MJ's sound/look/act wasn't the end product of virtually endless theory (Quincy fucking Jones, c'mon) and all manner of choreography

which doesn't lessen MJ, or Prince

it is interesting in that it's an inverse of a (false) dichotomy you might normally posit - Prince as auteur vs MJ as manufactured product

the truth for both being somewhere in between
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
luka said:
And Prince was the ultimate Outsider. From the middle of fucking nowhere. Hicksville. Where they don't even have any black people.
Click to expand...
this isn't really true. he was from Minneapolis, a fairly large, mid-tier American city. Arguably the 2nd city of the Midwest after Chicago.

in the archetypal sense you mean, it's more true. he did create essentially something from nothing.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I have a sense that English people don't quite get Prince, in the sense that they don't quite get America sometimes

Prince was a very American figure despite all his otherworldliness

whereas MJ was by both nature and design potentially all things to all people
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
one main difference is that the degree to which Prince drew on both white and black influences

my absolute favorite era of dance music is, as often previously noted, the post-disco pre-house early 80s

post-disco proper, disco not disco, new wave, post-punk, italo, boogie, electro

whatever records got played at The Paradise Garage, Danceteria, etc

Prince absolutely belongs to that, whether or not he literally got played at those places (idk)

he's drawing on Jimi, JB, Sly, P-funk, etc but also David Bowie, synth pop, etc

his feyness is that of both Little Richard and Jagger/Bowie

whereas MJ - despite his infinitely massive crossover appeal - is operating more strictly in the electronic black soul/pop continuum

doo-wop, R+B, soul, disco - epitomized in Off the Wall

as luka said, he was black pop royalty, Motown, Quincy Jones, the whole bit

this isn't an argument for superiority either way so much as explaining my own preferences

I love disco, expansively defined, in general, absolutely including disco proper, but I usually like the weirder stuff more

Prince is fucking weird and yeah, full of screaming guitars, but wed to flawless funk/R+B chops and a generational voice
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
like it's not a mark at all against MJ that he doesn't play the guitar solo himself on Beat It, but like, fucking Van Halen?

in MJ's music black and white music are two separate worlds pressed together

Prince effortlessly fuses them into one seamless whole

MJ is, it doesn't matter if you're black and white

Prince doesn't have to say that, he just expresses it
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I understand why Prince vs MJ is the comparison, but to take it another direction you might compare Prince vs Rick James

this is pretty brilliant and I highly recommend watching them all, only like 10 minutes


 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
those are particularly interesting in their discussion of Rick James' inability to broke through to white audiences like MJ and Prince

especially the bit where he literally calls them both out for being tokens to the MTV's (presumably) mostly white audience

certainly there's a healthy amount of bitterness, but also a pretty fascinating look at the always difficult position of being a black American artist

the tightrope walk between being too black and not black enough

which MJ overcame with sheer populism, and Prince through transcendence (and guitars)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top