Wuhan Killer Sneeze (thanks Tea)

[padraig (u.s.)]

this is a chink in the facade of"capitalist realism"?

I don't think so. certainly not yet.

it will - as one hears - massively disrupt and possibly permanently rearrange global supply chains

and likely speed up the already ongoing shift to more remote working, learning, buying, etc, with resulting changes in production and consumption

but it's hard - for me - to see how's it not just rearranging the chairs on the deck of the proverbial ship

even in 2008 it was hard for people to grasp the causes of a crisis that was 99% the fault of Wall Street etc greed, ignorance, and delusion

this time they are much more indirectly related to capitalism, or capitalist realism

one thing it is doing is exposing many awful practices that are normally taken as business as usual

i.e. cities are saying for the duration of the crisis they're not going to do things like: turn off people's water, have police evict people who can't pay rent, etc. interest won't be collected on student loans. ISPs will eliminate broadband data caps. and so on.

as that article says, why the fuck is any of that happening in the first place? well, obviously to benefit: utility companies, property owners, loan providers, ISPs, etc.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Nah, fuck him. I hope he drowns in his own pus along with Bolsonaro.

you're not here and you won't have to deal with the fallout

 

[IdleRich]

Though ironically didn't one of his recent addresses lower it so much that it was being characterised as the most expensive speech in history? (EDIT: that was supposed to follow directly the thing about Trump only caring about the stock market)

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

but like, the government had to bail out the banks in 2008 and it didn't really shake people's faith in capitalism

or mar the vision of capitalist realism, if you will

so I don't see that as a likely outcome now

tho many things that wouldn't otherwise be are possible in times of chaos

 

[droid]

you're not here and you won't have to deal with the fallout

I honestly don't see how it would be worse or more chaotic than it is now or will soon be, plus no chance of re-election. At least some long term hope as a result.

But then again...

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

as prompts for possible radical restructurings of society

I'll believe it when I see it, tho I grant the possibility of course

different I believe, "very different" I'm not sure about, tho it depends what one means by very different

fwiw I met with my financial advisor on Thursday - at the consumer side of a large investment bank -and they're (comparatively) nonplussed by everything

do I believe in the infallibility of their quants, traders, other decision makers? of course not. especially after 2008.

but still, what everyone can agree on - it's not the apocalypse. it's not the Black Death.

I don't want to sound callous, but in "the scheme of things" - as far as radical restructuring of society - it won't kill THAT many people

(barring a mutation to a strain with greater lethality; tho of course the opposite may happen as well)

the question is, will the social and economic disruption be enough to convince enough people that some kind of radical restructuring is needed?

or - more likely - will it force some level of deglobalization, disentangling of the connected world, as it exposes the fragility of global economic networks?

things will be different, but I think it's much too soon to say how different, or in what ways

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I honestly don't see how it would be worse or more chaotic than it is now or will soon be

dude, you know I love you, but you're not here

it's not Mad Max and bodies in the streets. it's not going to be.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

if you don't understand why the President of the United States dying in office of coronavirus wouldn't massively increase the chaos, I don't know what to say

 

[version]

Germany tries to stop US from luring away firm seeking coronavirus vaccine

Berlin is trying to stop Washington from persuading a German company seeking a coronavirus vaccine to move its research to the United States, prompting German politicians to insist no country should have a monopoly on any future vaccine.

Germany's Health Ministry confirmed a report in newspaper Welt am Sonntag, which said President Donald Trump had offered funds to lure the company CureVac to the United States, and the German government was making counter-offers to tempt it to stay.

"The German government is very interested in ensuring that vaccines and active substances against the new coronavirus are also developed in Germany and Europe," the newspaper quoted a Health Ministry official as saying.

"In this regard, the government is in intensive exchange with the company CureVac."

Contacted by Reuters, a spokeswoman for the German Health Ministry said: "We confirm the report in the Welt am Sonntag."

Welt am Sonntag quoted an unidentified German government source as saying Trump was trying to secure the scientists' work exclusively, and would do anything to get a vaccine for the United States, "but only for the United States."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/15/cor...stop-us-luring-away-firm-seeking-vaccine.html

 

[version]

What's the betting Trump's rushing to develop the first vaccine so he can charge everyone an arm and a leg?

 

[IdleRich]

I think it's partly that... also a massive case of reverse-ferret arse-covering to try and dig himself out of the hole he got himself into by declaring it a hoax on live tv and denying people tests long after it was obvious to most that it was serious.

 

[baboon2004]

I don't want to sound callous, but in "the scheme of things" - as far as radical restructuring of society - it won't kill THAT many people

(barring a mutation to a strain with greater lethality; tho of course the opposite may happen as well)

It's hard to know at the moment -certainly many countries have weathered many times such losses as we're seeing currently with no radical restructuring - 1957 -8 'Asian flu' killed 116,000 in the US and 14,000 in the UK, for example, with a total of 1-2 million worldwide. 1968-1972 (it came four successive years I think, or 4/5 - which seems particularly chilling right now) flu pandemic killed 100,000 in the US and 1 million worldwide. Swine flu in 2009 killed hundreds of thousands worldwide, and obvs happened almost contemporaneously with a global economic meltdown.

BUT from a UK perspective, the possible 500,000 deaths/1% of the population mentioned the other day by Johnson's crony was something on another scale, for us at least. I know it was said so that people's expectations were set, and catastrophic losses could be passed off as 'better than we first thought', but still.

Also the presumed mortality rate of 1% is higher than anything since 1918, another massive difference.

 

[john eden]

Trump is a signifier though - it’s not about him. If he dies then his supporters will desire the next Trump - or what they see as an upgrade.

 

[IdleRich]

I think that the Trump brand would be damaged if he were killed by a virus that he designated a democrat hoax.

 

[john eden]

I spoke to 7 or 8 people on a Skype call today about the mutual aid stuff and they were all lovely. None of us knew each other but we all wanted to do our bit to look after people.

 

[john eden]

I think that the Trump brand would be damaged if he were killed by a virus that he designated a democrat hoax.

That isn’t how it works, Rich. He’d be a martyr.

 

[IdleRich]

I dunno man, it's all hypothetical obviously but hard to argue someone hasn't fucked up when they are repeatedly on record downplaying something that turns out to be super serious, and if it gets them...
Can anyone confirm what I asked above, is it true that if Pence and Trump were both out of action then Pelosi would be stand-in president?

 

[john eden]

Nothing out of the expansive catalogue of idiocy thus far has “damaged the trump brand”. It just makes liberals smirk which reinforces the Trump base’s views about liberals.

 

[IdleRich]

I get the impression that this might be the one that does... but I've been wrong before. Anyway, if he can't be harmed maybe his death is the best thing for everyone.

 

[version]

Are there many people who can do what Trump does? It's hard to sustain a cult of personality without the personality it was built around.