Wuhan Killer Sneeze (thanks Tea)

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luka

luka

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Yyaldrin is a blonde 6'3 Dutchman who has spent the last decade living and partying in Berlin.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
luka said:
This is one of the perennial questions. It crops up, for example, in regard to Iraq. Did the Americans intend to create a functioning secular democracy and fail to due to incompetence or did they intend to destabilise the country permanantly to justify a continued military presence and prevent a strong state forming which might be hostile to Israel (etc etc) in which case they were not remotely incompetent.
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I think it's more likely that they believed their own hype, to be honest. Consider how much more expensive it was to get bogged down for years rather than go in, get the job done and get out again. So a "follow the money" argument doesn't really support the deliberate-fuckup position.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
luka said:
who was bearing the expense for a start? and who was profitting?
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Well, the taxpayer ultimately, of course. And yes obviously you've got your Haliburtons and your BAe Systems and so on, but you've also got fucking thousands, tens of thousands, of soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen and so on, and all the support personnel, all of them drawing salaries from the public purse... I mean, sure, governments are often pretty cavalier about spending other people's money, but the voting public will tend to hold them to account sooner or later, at least in democracies. And that's before you even consider all those 19-year-olds coming home in body bags. So what did it all buy them? Was America a more powerful country, in the most general possible sense, as a result of Iraq going tits-up?

I think a better explanation is personal venality - How can I win glory for *my* division? How can I increase shareholder value for *my* company, and therefore enrich *myself*? - than a grand overall plan involving the deliberate despoilation of Iraq. It's still about cynicism and self-interest, but on a smaller scale.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
one of the interesting things about the powerful is they never get held to account. if you look at the history of those people behind the iraq war, you will be astonished by how many were directly involved in iran contra for instance.
 
Murphy

Murphy

cat malogen
The Iraq War was about A) posturing to the Arab world, B) drawing Iran into another war on its borders and C) obv shitcanning SH who was no longer an asset.

The apparent stupidity and senselessness of it masks the actual parties it sought to undermine.
 
luka

luka

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london has been under an even heavier and all pervasive skunk cloud than usual. thats my anedotal evidence.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
luka said:
they havent been held to account.
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Well no, not in any meaningful sense, but remember that a big part of Trump's appeal during his election campaign was the idea of an isolationist America that wouldn't be going on these expensive and bloody adventures around the world anymore.

Of course, that was before he almost started WWIII by blasting one of Iran's top generals.
 
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