Keir Starmer

[version]

Slavoj weighs in.

Slavoj Zizek: Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t suspended from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism, he was defenestrated for anti-Capitalism

The former leader is just the latest left-wing figure to be brought down by vexatious allegations of Jew-hating so opponents don’t have to engage with his real argument, that capitalism has and is failing.

www.rt.com

 

[DannyL]

Not even gonna read that. "Professional contration weighs in, annoyingly".

 

[DannyL]

I did read last night that they've banned CLPs from making motions that are "gestures of support for our Jez" as they did with motions arguing about anti-semitism.

 

[john eden]

Bit of a shitshow, no?

 

[DannyL]

Yes, massive shitshow. Depressing tbh.
Sort of think this is the tide going out on Corbynism, according to a few surveys I've seen. Lots of members are sick of it. But there's a lot of angry barnacles clinging to the shore.

 

[DannyL]

Even I am bored of talking about it!

 

[subvert47]

Yes, massive shitshow. Depressing tbh.
Sort of think this is the tide going out on Corbynism, according to a few surveys I've seen. Lots of members are sick of it. But there's a lot of angry barnacles clinging to the shore.

Massive shitshow: yes. Depressing: yes.
Tide going out on Corbynism: no, because there never was such a thing. It's all just democratic socialism, which is supported by a huge proportion of the membership, along with left wing unions and a sizeable faction of MPs, who are not going away any time soon.
Members sick of it: absolutely. But Sir Keith is responsible for that as much as anybody.
So much for the fucking unity candidate.

 

[DannyL]

Corbyn, rather than Corbynism, then. I've always been more focused on those at the top when I slag this stuff off.
As for unity, you can't have unity with the Left factions that he bought in with him. They'll never make an accommodation with the compromises needed to become an attractive, electable party.

 

[shiels]

Corbyn, rather than Corbynism, then. I've always been more focused on those at the top when I slag this stuff off.
As for unity, you can't have unity with the Left factions that he bought in with him. They'll never make an accommodation with the compromises needed to become an attractive, electable party.

this was the standard move for centrists shouting about a personality cult. Ironically it was they who were fixated on the man himself while ignoring the real reasons for huge support for socialist policies, the material conditions

 

[subvert47]

Corbyn, rather than Corbynism, then. I've always been more focused on those at the top when I slag this stuff off.

Corbyn, sure. He's gone. He only matters now to the extent that we will NOT allow him to be thrown under the bus. Even if it'd have been better if he'd just kept his mouth shut.

As for unity, you can't have unity with the Left factions that he bought in with him. They'll never make an accommodation with the compromises needed to become an attractive, electable party.

Bullshit. It's always the left that ends up making compromises. Corbyn's first shadow cabinet was "broad church", until the right all walked out, unwilling to "make an accommodation with the compromises needed to become an attractive, electable party". And we still nearly won in 2017.

And the right are at it again right now.

 

[john eden]

And for all the talk of Stalinism, the party under Corbyn never issued dictats forbidding people at CLPs discussing things.

There were no suspensions afaik where the press found out before the respondent.

 

[Mr. Tea]

And we still nearly won in 2017.

Oh for heaven's sake, not this again. Are you aware of the actual result of the election? We got 55 fewer seats than the Tories and lost the popular vote by 750,000.

We did better than most polls predicted, but we did not "nearly win".

 

[subvert47]

Oh for heaven's sake, not this again. Are you aware of the actual result of the election? We got 55 fewer seats than the Tories and lost the popular vote by 750,000.

We did better than most polls predicted, but we dis not "nearly win".

We "nearly won" to the extent that we very well could have won if the right had been willing to "make an accommodation with the compromises needed to become an attractive, electable party". Instead, they hoped we'd lose. Which, as you say, we did.

 

[Mr. Tea]

We "nearly won" to the extent that we very well could have won if the right had been willing to "make an accommodation with the compromises needed to become an attractive, electable party". Instead, they hoped we'd lose. Which, as you say, we did.

I think this narrative drastically overestimates the influence that Labour centrists have over working class voters in the North and Midlands, because it overestimates how enthusiastic this constituency still is for Labour, full stop. Labour support in these 'heartland' areas has been steadily falling off since 1997 (or even before that, according to an argument @craner made here once). So in a sense, Blair and Corbyn were like peas in a pod, because their core support bases were mainly southern, educated and middle class. I don't think Labour has had a leader that "traditional Labour voters" have been enthusiastic about for 30 years.

 

[...]

There aren't any traditional Labour voters anymore, and New Labour was the closest the Labour party ever came to admitting it.

 

[subvert47]

I think this narrative drastically overestimates the influence that Labour centrists have over working class voters in the North and Midlands, because it overestimates how enthusiastic this constituency still is for Labour, full stop. Labour support in these 'heartland' areas has been steadily falling off since 1997 (or even before that, according to an argument @craner made here once).

Oh sure. Up here in the "Red Wall" Labour support has been dropping for years. Brexit just drove it off the cliff. Nonetheless, when you have a party with potentially popular policies (and, as it turned out, actually popular policies) a lot can be done by not spending all your time fostering division and making the leadership look like shit.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Oh sure. Up here in the "Red Wall" Labour support has been dropping for years. Brexit just drove it off the cliff. Nonetheless, when you have a party with potentially popular policies (and, as it turned out, actually popular policies) a lot can be done by not spending all your time fostering division and making the leadership look like shit.

That's fair, and I agree it's disappointing that some in the party had such a grudge against the rival faction that they'd prefer to lose and have yet another Tory government. (That said, I've seen Corbyn supporters say much the same thing, although they were - I hope - just random wankers on Twitter, rather than people in any position of influence in the party.)

But the "Corbyn would be PM now if it weren't for these vile traitors" narrative is, I think, completely untrue.

 

[Mr. Tea]

There aren't any traditional Labour voters anymore, and New Labour was the closest the Labour party ever came to admitting it.

Hence the quote marks.

 

[version]

Bernie was accused of antisemitism too.

 

[luka]

Kill starmer peel his fucking face off destroy him liquidate his essence