Well-known member
Key thing from that thread

"I think before you get anything from the spirit world there must two conditions satisfied—firstly, you
must really want the thing you ask for, and, secondly. you must have have implicit faith that you Will get it."


Well-known member
treeshagging has a very offputting title also have you ever actually in the literal sense shagged a tree? inserted your penis into an appropriate orifice and hammered away?


Well-known member
Yes I agree with you about the title now actually. I've renamed it to tree love but I am oscillating back to treeshagging.

And no it's not literal it's metaphorical you dimwit.


Well-known member
i think that making it literal would be the the logical next step. why on earth shouldnt you?
i propse you make formal love to a tree of your choice in the strict penetrative sense of the word


Well-known member
I think the secret lies precisely in never doing that but it being there as an option. It remains in the world of the fantastic.

Once you do it, something gets ruined, unless its done in a very clever way.

I think Cameron Jamie managed that with massage the history. It's erotic rather than sexual. Obviously the "shagging" in my title makes it very base but there's also some play on words there.

Korine had to go the other way into farce with trash humpers and its not effective.

Once yoh commit thd act, the spell is broken.


Well-known member
phil is doing a new book on crowley, his various houses and london.

there's a few technicals, starting late at 8.30.

the guy doing the talk, michael staley, has got a massive ganesh behind him


Well-known member
edited this post cos it was a shocker...

one of the pics he presented is one i've not seen before


Staley used the phrase "demonic figures emerging from the rock" which made me think about my own recent trips to the forest looking into trees and seeing faces popping out.

Someone in the chat mentioned Alaisdair Gray as a similar artist, the guy who wrote Lanark I think?

Good shout anyway


Another very interesting detail from the talk was the menton of how when Spare used to draw on wood, he would use the grain/line of the wood itself to figure out where to go.

Not sure if this is one of those exactly, but it's another good one I've not seen before


Staley also quoted Spare as saying "thou shall live in every conceivable form and every conceivable thing shall happen to thee" and that what he was doing with the multiple figures a lot of the time was trying to show the versions/emanations of people, what they have been, what they might become.

Someone put "atavistic recapitualtion" in the chat and I agree with that - there's a whiff of the recapitualtion theory (spinal column as container of all forms of life as you travel up it) which was one of the contenders at the same time as Darwin.

another Spareism - "the ego is merely the echolalia of the mind" where echolalia = involuntary recreation of someone else's words.

we involuntarily recreate others all the time.
Last edited:


Well-known member
only of interest to me I suppose, and I've already ordered my copy even though I already own their previous edition, but this one has some extras so they basically baited me

The Book Of Pleasure - Self Love ( The Psychology of Ecstasy )

Jerusalem Press have been quietly serving the needs of the Zos Kia Cultus and I've ended up buying all their AOS titles ( standard editions only, I'm not going to endorse leather bound editions because I'm not into cruelty to animals, etc., )


Well-known member
Not really Spare exactly but...

Just thinking a bit more about the introduction of "negative prompting" in AI and what that could mean.

Here is Jan Fries talking about making sigils

Here are some points to remember in the sigil's construction.

Keep it positive. If you say I want no disease', your deep mind represents the ideas ‘I' 'want' 'disease' and then tries to cancel the disease it has just imagined. This may cause some confusion.

Exercise: imagine clearly what these phrases mean.

1. ‘I want no disease', 'I want health.
2. 'My emotional troubles disappear', 'my emotions are healed'.
3. 'I am feeling not bad', 'I feel well'.
4. 'Do not do this wrong', 'Do it right'.
5. Do not be loud', 'Do be silent'.

When your deep mind tries to make sense out of such suggestions, the negations
can be difficult. The mother who tells a child 'don't fall down', communicates 'do -
negation - fall down.'

To make sense of this, the deep mind has to imagine 'do fall down' and then has to cancel the whole thing.

This is a complicated procedure, as the undesired effect has to be conceived before it can be denied, and often enough our little brat will get a strong impulse to fall in the process.

'Be in balance' would be a much better suggestion, as it is a simple and positive concept which can be imagined easily.

Some pioneers of hypnotherapy, such as Schultz, believed that 'the subconscious mind cannot understand negations.'

Modern research indicated that it can, but not as easily. Apparently it needs more time to make sense of negations and more effort. When in a hurry or under pressure, negations can easily be overlooked.

The deep mind is much more competent in working changes and effecting a healing then you are. It will know what to do, and how and when and with whom, much better than your ego can.

This means that a general suggestion will give the deep mind a lot of freedom, while a specific suggestion may well be aimed at what the ego believes important, and which may be completely beside the point.

Keep your phrases open and diffuse, you want to stimulate change, not to specify and control it...

What am I saying here? It was a more magical process a few months ago. Ad it becomes more codified, its becoming something that can be more easily harnessed/controlled.