Locker room talk: rolling basketball thread

[linebaugh]

If they made a further trade for OG Anunoby (with what remaining assets tho?) as linebaugh suggested at least u could see a coherent basketball plan I guess, tho the everpresent threat of Kyrie nonsense would still loom just as large

asking price for OG is rumored to be around 2-3 first round picks. Mavs have two first round picks, jaden hardy (a semi promising rookie), hardaway jr, christian wood, and a second round pick to deal with. josh Green too but I think he's near untouchable for the mavs after sending out Finney Smith. Caveat is that they only have access to two first round picks if they send something the Knicks way to get them to drop the protections on the pick the mavs owe them this year. So they cant make a godfather offer but they are in the mix should they decide to be.

 

[linebaugh]

ofc none of this matters if kyrie decides to blow the whole thing up which is likely

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

it could be the trade that loses us luka which would indeed make it one of the worst trades ever, Im not exactly confident. That being said I think it definitely works basketball wise. Kyrie can just slot into what Brunson did last year, which in the playoffs was standard your turn my turn iso basketball with two high usage guys. Brunson had a 28% usage rate in the playoffs last year, and Kyrie this year has a 30% usage rate. Theres some noise because Luka missed 3 playoff games, but regardless I dont see how the difference cant be split for Kyrie who is better than brunson.

Kyries also worked well with lebron and harden who Luka is most stylistically similar too. Not denying Kyrie isnt a franchise killer but for whatever reason the players all love him and he doenst seem to have a problem being a number two, or at least a 1b.

And this hasnt leaked out to the rest of the league yet, but dorian finney smith has not been our best perimeter defender this year. Thats been josh green. Albeit putting trust in a 22 year old is another major risk, but the defensive core of Bullock, DFS, and Kleber is still in tact with Green sliding into the DFS slot. DFS is one of my favorite Mavs ever but Green might be better than him all around right now and Id be pretty surprised if he isnt next season. Also worth noting that the primary reason the mavs defense has been so bad is because Kleber has been injured, and he'll be back around the all star break.

That seems like a reasonable glass half full take, basketball-wise. You're watching more Mavs basketball than me, so I'll take you at your word about Green >> DFS, but indisputably this is a trade that a bad defensive team worse on defense. And I agree that Kleber will help but come on - he's underrated but he's also not gonna single-handedly drag the Mavs up to a contender level defense, especially when they just got weaker on the wing and at the point of attack (Kyrie being, at best, an indifferent defender).

Offensively your point about Kyrie 1B is well-taken, and if "better Jalen Brunson" is the goal, then sure. It just seems like they would've been vastly better with off with a big two-way wing. Granted those guys aren't like, readily available, but you still just expended most of your trade capital for Kyrie. Idk. I mean it's a huge swing and who knows, maybe it will work out. I just think of it smacks of desperation, and desperation leads front offices to make terrible decisions. I've have a lot more confidence if it was literally any other NBA star besides Kyrie and his long track record of bullshit but again idk maybe Luka already has that Lebronesque gravitas to keep Kyrie in check.

On the balance I think it's far more likely that Luka bounces after 2024-25 than that yall make an NBA finals with Kyrie but anything's possible

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Another guy you could pursue is Caruso, great on-ball defender (and defensive quarterback type, always calling telling teammates where to go etc). Not the size or scoring of OG but significantly cheaper.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Afa Jazz/Wolves, come on. Four first-round picks for a guy who, while undeniably an all-time rim protector, is a non-shooter who has a long history of getting consistently run off the floor in the playoffs. And not just four first round picks, but one of the pieces the Jazz got back is already, as a rookie, a poor man's Gobert minus the crippling salary.

Unless the Wolves have a multiyear serious contender window - possible but unlikely (and even if they do it'll probably have more to do with Anthony Edwards leveling up to 1st Team All-NBA than the twin towers) - it's a failure on their end. An extremely costly failure. If they do have success it's just a huge overpay but who cares, sure. For the Jazz tho, it could be like the infamous Herschel Walker trade that was a key component of building the 90s Cowboys dynasty. And there are very few NBA people you'd trust more with four extra picks than Ainge, who already built two actual contenders, tho admittedly only one was primarily thru the draft (Smart, Brown, Tatum, Timelord, all Ainge picks).

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Mainly it's just hard to believe Ainge pulled that much out of a Wolves team who knew he was doing a fire sale, but that's why he's a trade wizard and the Wolves front office is the Wolves front office.

 

[linebaugh]

That seems like a reasonable glass half full take, basketball-wise. You're watching more Mavs basketball than me, so I'll take you at your word about Green >> DFS, but indisputably this is a trade that a bad defensive team worse on defense. And I agree that Kleber will help but come on - he's underrated but he's also not gonna single-handedly drag the Mavs up to a contender level defense, especially when they just got weaker on the wing and at the point of attack (Kyrie being, at best, an indifferent defender).

Offensively your point about Kyrie 1B is well-taken, and if "better Jalen Brunson" is the goal, then sure. It just seems like they would've been vastly better with off with a big two-way wing. Granted those guys aren't like, readily available, but you still just expended most of your trade capital for Kyrie. Idk. I mean it's a huge swing and who knows, maybe it will work out. I just think of it smacks of desperation, and desperation leads front offices to make terrible decisions. I've have a lot more confidence if it was literally any other NBA star besides Kyrie and his long track record of bullshit but again idk maybe Luka already has that Lebronesque gravitas to keep Kyrie in check.

On the balance I think it's far more likely that Luka bounces after 2024-25 than that yall make an NBA finals with Kyrie but anything's possible

its worth mentioning that the Mavs defense last year was a bit overrated and got exposed by the Warriors before I say this, but I think Kleber coming back actually could get them to a similar level as last season. The mavs defense last year revolved around the trio of Bullock, DFS, and Kleber playing the lions share of the most important minutes of the game and having two of them on the court at all times regardless. If Green can continue his play in the post season (again thats a big if as he's 22 and was played out of the playoff rotation last year) they still have essentially the same tools. I dont think Kyrie is a step down defensively from the low bar set by dinwiddie and brunson and ironically we will probably have to play Frank Ntilikina now (not that I think this is indicative of healthy roster construction, but he is a decent defender at least). Other than that the roster is the same.

And this may be a full homer take but kleber really is a great defender. Hes underated because he's not a great rebounder and not truly excellent at any one defensive skill, but he's one of the leagues most versatile on that end. theres not really one thing he cant do at at least a decent level 1 through 5. I can see that versatility having the same effect on a defense as a decent point guard does on an offense, even if said point guard isnt necessarily an all star.

But again the mavs last year werent as good a defense as they need to be to win it all regardless. they were extremely adaptable but at some point theres diminishing returns on only being able to hold the line. like a boxer that could rope a dope but couldnt throw a punch.

 

[linebaugh]

 

[sus]

sorry liner but i'm rooting against you tonight. need that seed to go up

 

[sus]

Kuminga will be scary x-factor come playoffs. Teams will have to slack off on him a bit, esp if Wiggs is back, because who else are you gonna slack off from? He could have a Poole-esque series, where teams haven't yet adjusted to how scary he's gotten, and he ends up a 20ppg difference-maker.

 

[sus]

How do Mavs fans feel about Kidd these days? Obviously getting to the WCF last year—despite missing Luka for a series—and beating up so bad on Phoenix, feels like they performed above expectations, would imagine most Dallas fans were pretty happy despite how WCF went

 

[sus]

Hardy is good. I'd never heard of him. Where'd he come from?

 

[sus]

I think basketball players should wear contact sensors all over their bodies, like fencers. They respond to a certain amount of pressure/force, so you can actually set objective limits/locations for what, where, and when contact is legal. "Yep, thirty pounds of force were applied to the upper arm at .15 seconds before the shot went off; foul."

 

[sus]

damn. Mavs can play. Mavs showed up. What a team.

 

[Leo]

except when they don't know who has possession after a time out.

 

[linebaugh]

How do Mavs fans feel about Kidd these days? Obviously getting to the WCF last year—despite missing Luka for a series—and beating up so bad on Phoenix, feels like they performed above expectations, would imagine most Dallas fans were pretty happy despite how WCF went

we hate him

 

[linebaugh]

Hardy is good. I'd never heard of him. Where'd he come from?

hes a rookie. he opted to skip college and spend what would be his freshman year in the g league and I guess front offices were not impressed by what they saw so he fell to the second round, but coming out of highschool he was predicted to be I believe around a lottery pick.

 

[sus]

seems like a silver lining to the season

 

[linebaugh]

I guess. who cares.

 

[sus]

I'm sorry linebaugh. If it makes you feel better Poole is looking like a huge liability contract, Wiggs will probably never return, GP2 will probably never fully recover from his injuries, we may well get booted from the play-in.

I mean, if Wiggs returns I still have GS as championship favorites, but. Abstractly I can empathetize. In the hypothetical. There is a way that I could imagine feeling like a Mavs fan.