Mexico

sus

sus

Moderator
linebaugh said:
There was a funny thing I noticed where most American sources tried to down play the amount of ritual sacrifice going on and then when actually in Mexico everyone goes 'oh ya we we really fucking people up!'
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The Aztecs and Mayans are a thorn in the side of both (1) psych-head hippies who insist that if only everyone dropped acid, we'd live in a peaceful utopia,(2) history-revising anti-imperialists, who insist that the white race is a uniquely oppressive cancer that decimated a pacifist indigenous population.

In reality, Mesoamerica was ruled by brutal imperialist regimes, and their extinction is not a tragedy (although certainly the destruction of their cultural artifacts, and the deaths of individual natives in slavery or disease, are tragedies). History is a long sequence of big fish getting eaten by even bigger fish. Degrowth and disarmament aren't stable equilibria, someone will always defect and seize power. Wield power or be disempowered.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Their Anthropology museum is the best museum in the world I think

The modern art museums that are right next to each other are pretty good, I like the bleeding sacred hearts, and all the crazy ivory carvings
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
suspended said:
The Aztecs and Mayans are a thorn in the side of both (1) psych-head hippies who insist that if only everyone dropped acid, we'd live in a peaceful utopia,(2) history-revising anti-imperialists, who insist that the white race is a uniquely oppressive cancer that decimated a pacifist indigenous population.

In reality, Mesoamerica was ruled by brutal imperialist regimes, and their extinction is not a tragedy (although certainly the destruction of their cultural artifacts, and the deaths of individual natives in slavery or disease, are tragedies).
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This is true - although the warlike proclivities of the pre-Colombian civilizations are so well known that I expect you'd have to go pretty far, even among the leftiest of circles, to find anyone in academia who'd go so far as to call them 'pacifist'.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Mr. Tea said:
This is true - although the warlike proclivities of the pre-Colombian civilizations are so well known that I expect you'd have to go pretty far, even among the leftiest of circles, to find anyone in academia who'd go so far as to call them 'pacifist'.
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I don't disagree, but I think the tendency is to (1) essentialize indigenous people into a single cluster (2) generalize the pacifist (and otherwise progressive-friendly) behaviors of a small fraction of North American indigenous groups, in order to reinforce a morally black and white narrative. It's less "the Aztecs were pacifists" and more "pacifist indigenous populations, living side by side in harmony with each other and with mother nature, and with no concept of property, had THEIR land STOLEN from them" etc etc. Lots of incoherences/broad brush strokes.
 
sufi

sufi

lala
suspended said:
This is my favorite part, and because of the differences in civilizational/technological "advancement," the juxtapositions are much stronger than in Europe—in Mexico you have colonial Catholic churches right next to ruined temples where they cut peoples hearts out and rolled them down stairs. Maybe there are some parallel juxtapositions in English history w/r/t Romanization, but
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www.guildhall.cityoflondon.gov.uk

Roman Amphitheatre & Undercroft Gallery

www.guildhall.cityoflondon.gov.uk www.guildhall.cityoflondon.gov.uk
 
shakahislop

shakahislop

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
Juarez is known for being particularly muder-y, isn't it? I think it's the real-life inspiration for the fictional city of Santa Teresa in Bolano's 2666 ('the part about the murders').
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yeah I think so. I mean before I went there I'd only heard about it because people talk about it in relation to cartels. My understanding when I was there is that essentially there and in a lot of northern mexico some places are basically run by the cartels, who control the police and so on. Not many visible signs of that, but of course such things would be illegible to a foreigner. although that place did have quite murdery vibes.
 
shakahislop

shakahislop

Well-known member
the place of mexican food in the american imagination is kind of interesting. the idea that it de facto should be cheap rather than fine dining. an immigrant food. the opposite end of the spectrum to french and japanese food. the adaptation of mexican food to the american palate is quite a comprehensive example of how that process works as well (same as indian food in the UK really).

the chimichanga, although i've only eaten one, is a true monstrosity. something that's part of the 'mexican' category of food but which is absolutely an american creation. the slow adaptation of a cuisine towards local tastes, the daily feedback mechanism between customers and cooks.
 
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linebaugh

linebaugh

Well-known member
the only negative people I ran into were a rude drunk american at a bar and an Australian who essentially posed as a local online to get the cheap mexico prices when in reality he was just a hairy bum whos been on a 7 month vacation and still paid significantly less than every local. another artist had a similar run in with an australian. Ive determined that they are a cheap and grubby people.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
linebaugh said:
the only negative people I ran into were a rude drunk american at a bar and an Australian who essentially posed as a local online to get the cheap mexico prices when in reality he was just a hairy bum whos been on a 7 month vacation and still paid significantly less than every local. another artist had a similar run in with an australian. Ive determined that they are a cheap and grubby people.
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They're always the worst, the Australian tourists. I noticed this in Europe. I've met some incredibly nice, sweet, smart Australians but the ones who stay in travel hostels are the lowest order of civilization. I would happily spearhead a eugenics program if we could weed them out of the gene pool. Maybe we offer them hostel deals in exchange for a little snippy snippy.
 
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