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Well-known member
Sokal didn't debunk "Theory" by arguments. He let the supposed guardians of the field debunk it themselves. So there is nothing to 'cite': the fact that the editors of Social Text took 'Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity' seriously speaks for itself.
Right but you're missing the point: Sokal never wanted to debunk Theory. He just wanted to show that it needed better peer review practices. So according to Sokal, we should still do Theory, we should just talk to scientists before we make scientific claims within our Theory.

if you can say with a straight face that Butler's ideas are "true" - assertions, or some types of assertions, can be true or untrue,
It is a basic claim of almost all logic that assertions can be true or false.
but it's not really a property that ideas can have

I have no idea why you believe this. This claim is certainly not one held by any large number of philosophers.

- while implying that the number of people who can understand these ideas is irrelevant (maybe if almost no-one can understand your ideas then you just really suck at explaining them?) or that the quality of Butler's writing doesn't matter.

Well I'm right. You have no criticism of Butler's ideas. I'm not going to argue with you about the quality of their writing. And you certainly have no right to criticize them when you avowedly don't understand them!
 

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Well-known member
Because you would have to rewrite your argument and then it would run into even more bother.

Try writing it without using the word 'gender'
Why would I do that? Butler is a gender theorist. That's like trying to write about Marx without using the word "capital".
 

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Well-known member
In the languages without the sex/gender distinction, the default would be gender=biological sex
Do you have any evidence of that? You sure they wouldn't considered some actions as gendered? Also if they don't distinguish between gender and sex, how does it make sense to say they identify the two? Maybe they don't have concepts of gender OR sex.
 

mixed_biscuits

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Surely even the origin of 'gender' as it is used in the US/UK was to denote behaviours connected with the respective biological sexes
 

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Well-known member
It's their physical attributes that would be considered to make them women
Again, where is your evidence of this? And if sex defines gender, then there simply is no gender. So there's no point in arguing with a gender theorist when you literally lack any theory of gender. You just have a theory of sex and you claim sex is all there is.
 

mixed_biscuits

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Again, where is your evidence of this? And if sex defines gender, then there simply is no gender. So there's no point in arguing with a gender theorist when you literally lack any theory of gender. You just have a theory of sex and you claim sex is all there is.
I'm referring to use - Wittgenstein, innit
 

mixed_biscuits

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Right and you have no argument for why it's illegitimate to distinguish between sex and gender
I think it's legitimate up to a point...the point at which, for instance, one might say that your rapping a lot makes you black because the action defines your race-gender

Why is meaning = use relevant? Empiricism!
 

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Well-known member
I think it's legitimate up to a point...the point at which, for instance, one might say that your rapping a lot makes you black because the action defines your race-gender
Again, your failure to understand the difference in logic between concepts of race and gender is your problem. This type of stuff confuses no one but you.

Why is meaning = use relevant? Empiricism!
Say more? You can't just shout a word and expect to make a point. Besides, you already ignored the empirical evidence in support of gender.
 
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