shakahislop
Well-known member
the entanglement of genuinely progressive forces and commercial reality tends to create outputs which are a bit sullied, things that are less clear cut
Positive discrimination/affirmative action etc in music
- Thread starter IdleRich
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- this is dumb
shakahislop
Well-known member
I'd be interested to see how lineups break down demographically today compared to 10 or 20 years ago. I'm sure you'd see a lot more women, nonbinary people, trans people, people of colour etc being given a platform but I'd guess that white, male and / or straight people still make up the bulk in most places.
One point which I've always found interesting is that even though lineups have become more diverse since the 2000s, the people making serious money off dance music have narrowed over that same time period. Look at the promoters, the companies who own the venues and run festivals, all of that stuff is far more corporate and centralised now than it was even in the days of MoS or Cream, and it's invariably the same revolving door of old white men profiting from it. Onstage diversity is a bit of a smokescreen in that sense, even if it's obviously a good thing in other ways.
The camera point's a good one - don't think anyone serious would argue that "pretty privilege" is equivalent to structural inequality, but DJs today do generally seem to prioritise certain aesthetics and approaches to self-promotion, which create their own homogeneity even if things are more diverse otherwise.
Also worth mentioning pay disparities: I still hear regularly about artists from marginalised backgrounds, particularly Black women, getting paid less than their white, male peers. Maybe it's as simple as promoters thinking they can save a few quid by booking people whose identity means their place in the industry is less secure, and lowballing them on their fee?
One point which I've always found interesting is that even though lineups have become more diverse since the 2000s, the people making serious money off dance music have narrowed over that same time period. Look at the promoters, the companies who own the venues and run festivals, all of that stuff is far more corporate and centralised now than it was even in the days of MoS or Cream, and it's invariably the same revolving door of old white men profiting from it. Onstage diversity is a bit of a smokescreen in that sense, even if it's obviously a good thing in other ways.
The camera point's a good one - don't think anyone serious would argue that "pretty privilege" is equivalent to structural inequality, but DJs today do generally seem to prioritise certain aesthetics and approaches to self-promotion, which create their own homogeneity even if things are more diverse otherwise.
Also worth mentioning pay disparities: I still hear regularly about artists from marginalised backgrounds, particularly Black women, getting paid less than their white, male peers. Maybe it's as simple as promoters thinking they can save a few quid by booking people whose identity means their place in the industry is less secure, and lowballing them on their fee?
IdleRich
IdleRich
I suppose though those guys are just wankers, they happen to be wankers who are talking about sexuality, but that's incidental to them generally being wankers. Sexuality is just the prism through they choose to express their wankerness. In a sense they don't belong in this thread, they just superficially look as though they do.
yyaldrin
in je ogen waait de wind
IdleRich
IdleRich
I've always loved Jamiroquai so I'm shocked and saddened to see this cultural appropriation. Your heroes always let you down in the end I guess.
shakahislop
Well-known member
it's the same for a lot of strident identity-based stuff. you have to learn to sift out what is motivated by something genuine from people using it as an excuse to take someone down a peg or two, lash out, assert superiority, all the other emotional things that happen between people / expressions of wankerness. this stuff is very much part of the social world i'm in so i've had to figure it out.
you can say that about a lot of political opinions, not only the identity part
IdleRich
IdleRich
Do you remember years ago when someone claimed those PG Tips ads with the monkeys were racist?
maxi
Well-known member
partly cos non-binary didn't exist as a term back then. a straight white (& narcissistic) dj can now announce they're non-binary and use it to get press/attention/victim status without having to change a single thing about themselves other than getting a weird haircut. it's so shameless lol.
likewise straight white guys putting on eyeliner and calling themselves queer. desperate to be defined out of the straight/white/male category because of the oppressor status it signifies in the identity-obsessed art/music world.
IdleRich
IdleRich
The thing is, all the comments will be "they're not a proper dj, they're just pressing buttons - a real DJ uses VINYL and is too busy mixing to dance around like this fool" - but of course these comments are made by bitter old gits who haven't been near a club in twenty years so they are utterly irrelevant.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I think this HOR thing is a lot better than Boiler Room cos you don't have a load of bored hipsters trying to look as though they are having fun.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I wonder how many people really do that though.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I don't, but I can all too easily imagine it, and it's just the kind of thing I'm talking about. I assume the accusers were, shall we say, not over-endowed in the melanin department?
maxi
Well-known member
it's the fact that those categories are so loosely defined that I'm getting at, and the reason for that
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
So you're saying identity sells? But what about when that identity stops selling. What about the fact that club attendances on average are at an all time low amongst 16-24 year olds, and london has less than half of the clubs it had 15 years ago? I'm still confused by your point, mate.
Also in terms of money making the whiter than white (to nick a blissblogger expression) sound of trance/progressive house dwarfs all he scenes we're talking about. it's not even a contest. and, in fact, part of the reason why I fell out with dance music is this, so many of these new sexy djs are reviving this enterprise, as if they needed validation from the commentariat!
Apparently there's an issue in publishing with people feeling they're pushed into being a "black writer" or a "queer writer" rather than just a writer who is black or queer. The sense that the market demands their identity become the product and that's all they can ever be and write about.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
@thirdform isn’t dj-ing a right-wing activity?