Poor State of Grime

[gumdrops]

what i mean is that in the same way you get people like the LOTD guys, who saw a niche in the market and started doing grime DVDs, its odd that there arent any enterprising people linked to the scene who see a similar gap waiting to be filled for grime events.

 

[Logan Sama]

The people who did LOTD aren't from Grime.

And LOTD wouldn't be possible without Jammer.

You see what my point is? Someone came in with the money and resources to do something, and someone from the scene provided them with access to the material.

 

[Grievous Angel]

You see what my point is? Someone came in with the money and resources to do something, and someone from the scene provided them with access to the material.

Someone put a budget together and I'll look at the numbers / likely downside risk.

 

[Grievous Angel]

this Sheffield speed garage thing's been a rumour for about four years,

No rumour . It's THE big sound in Sheffield in many ways. DJ Richard off UKD has been a bit of a name for a while. It's more 4x4 bassline stuff than 2step. It's what the cars play loud in town.

My favourite variant is punjabi Garage -- raging 4x4 garage with super-fast punjabi rpping / toasting over the top. Sounds amazing. Never been able to buy any. There's only a few record stores doing normal speed garage, usually mixed in with funky house.

but I saw a whole section of it on an online record shop the other day. there's been no effect on the dubstep/grime scene. anyone up north know any more?

It has next to no relationship with grime AFAICT. The Sheffield speed garage scene (actually it reaches out to Leeds and Birmingham now, rather than just as far as Wakefield LOL) is pretty racially mixed, especially White / Asian, VERY working class (you don't get the smart bars on West Street playing it) and goes alongside R'n'B and HipHop more than the ardkore 'nuum.

Similarly when Dizzee played Sheffield (he rocked it! ) it was at a club that was otherwise mainly hip hop / r'n'b / bit of bashment. Worked really well.

 

[Logan Sama]

Someone put a budget together and I'll look at the numbers / likely downside risk.

2 Named DJs playing within a reasonable distance of London would run you £200 a piece.

Take your pick from Cameo, Myself, Maximum, Karnage, Mac 10 or Bossman

4 decent MCs to host/spit on said sets would probably run you £150-£250 a piece

Various local djs or your mates playing the warm up slots....

Flyering would run you differeing amounts depending on what you decided the necessary volume would be.

Radio/Magazine ads are optional yet effective.

All in all you'd need about 2-3 grand to put on a night

And unless it was marketed to the more intrigued music connoisseur, rather than the grime fan, you would probably have trouble getting clearance for the night from the police, and would most likely need security, bringin costs up higher.

So you'd need to find a venue with a capacity that could recoup that, which is hard as they don't want garage of any form in most places, let alone big, successful ones.

I think the only reason Sidewinder makes decent money is the tape packs.

And that's why it's difficult to put on nights ourselves

 

[Logan Sama]

There used to be a lot of trouble at jungle raves, but they still went off all the time, so what's the difference? Is there even more trouble at grime events, or is it just that grime is too small (compared to jungle in the mid-90's) for venue owners to overcome their worry at possible trouble and be willing to book events?

Yes. That's the basic position. The average grassroots grime fan doesn't spend enough money on things that aren't weed or Nike to actually make it profitable. The only thing that really is selling are DVDs, and that's because they are a new novelty. When people get sick of seeing the same thing on every disc they buy that will tail off as well.

 

[Blackdown]

Yes. That's the basic position. The average grassroots grime fan doesn't spend enough money on things that aren't weed or Nike to actually make it profitable. The only thing that really is selling are DVDs, and that's because they are a new novelty. When people get sick of seeing the same thing on every disc they buy that will tail off as well.

i also think DVDs outsell vinyl because everyone has a Playstation or a PC but less and less people, unless they're DJs, have decks. Decks are a specialist DJ tool, not a general way of listening music i think now. Plus iPods and PC engender ripping over buying.

 

[Logan Sama]

The digital age is fucking over new musical genres.

The fact that the "fans" of the music are downloading the music instead of buying it means that the artists have to look outside of the scene for monetary reparations. it doesn't sustain itself.

This gives a relatively small scene a major label mentality where they don't want to do colaborations, only want to get album deals and end up living in a corporate world where the majors get to dictate what you can and can't do on the underground. It's a ridiculous position where people are getting sued for mixtapes that sell 200 copies and don't ever make it into even independant stores, and Label CEO's are ringing up Independant record shops when bootleg vinyl gets pressed.

Not A&Rs or legal departments... label CEOs are ringing up. The music isn't even regularily charting in the top 20, what the fuck are they doing watching the Independance website just in case someone presses up "Bongo When I'm Ere" or "Eyes On P's n Q's"?

 

[mpc]

my friend's been trying for months to do some grime nights. he had pretty much confirmed vex'd and ruff sqwad to play when the venue pulled out. most venues favour nights that will guarantee lots of people turning up, so if your music policy doesnt sound too familiar, you'll find it hard to find a willing venue.

 

[DJL]

This is from an email I just received:

"I think you should bring [the decks] to the party....but absolutely NO grime
records...how about some of your old school house and some D&B records of
old"

There is definatley some irrational dislike or fear installed in certain people about it.

 

[Logan Sama]

lol is that a private party?

Does Grime have some mystical power to summon hooded denizens of hell to slither from the shadows and start stabbing people left right and centre or something?

There was me thinking when you played Eskimo bassmix backwards it just said "Roll Deep".....

 

[Coxy]

Some interesting points made throughout. But I can't help think that the simple answer was said by Logan some time ago: "It's kiddy music." It is. MCs aren't great compared to Jehst, Skinnyman, Ty etc let's be honest and it's no coincidence that the crews are getting younger and younger. Though some of Wiley's early stuff was undoubtedly groundbreaking and intelligent, the copycat stuff coming out now just isn't. Play it to someone not into grime, but into hip-hop, garage or dnb say, and they do just laugh in my experience. The tunes are derivative and generic, boringly simple programming, and, again let's be honest, 16 year olds shouting about how big they are. The cream is minimal compared to the mass of off milk that surrounds it. End point? Kids don't go to raves.

 

[Pearsall]

The tunes are derivative and generic, boringly simple programming.

This I just don't agree with, especially if you are comparing it to UK Hip-Hop.

Grime is, musically, anyways, way way way more creative and forward-thinking than virtually any UK Hip-Hop I've ever heard. Ok, there's less UKHH people on Primo's nuts than there used to be, but it's hardly the most musically fresh scene out there.

Why do you think that people outside of Britain are interested in grime when they could give a fuck less about UKHH? It's the tunes.

 

[Coxy]

The idea is fresh and interesting - so people hearing it for the first time continuing to be drawn in doesn't surprise me - but, in my opinion, the tunes that are coming out now, aren't fresh and interesting, they're just repeating the original idea; badly. Those who originated have moved on methinks - see Wiley who just tried to cash in, fairly enough, and see the 'fans' who have gone elsewhere musically. This is why Grime is now seen as just an arena for MCs - the tunes aren't good enough to sit on their own, like the first releases were. So if you don't really rate/care for any of the young upstart shouters, then you drift away...
It all adds up trust me!

 

[DJL]

lol is that a private party?

Does Grime have some mystical power to summon hooded denizens of hell to slither from the shadows and start stabbing people left right and centre or something?

There was me thinking when you played Eskimo bassmix backwards it just said "Roll Deep".....

Yeah it is a private party. Almost everyone there will be 25 years old or older which I think is the explanation. The attitude here is "I'm too old to be interested in the latest craze music" I reckon. A lot of people have heard the hype but not the real innovative and exciting tunes and music properly from this age group believe me. Going to take some grime and dubstep tunes and slip them in without people noticing still...

 

[baboon2004]

Re the costs of putting on a rave, how did Wiley etc manage to hold Eskimo Dance at the SE1 Club in 2003/4? Such a big, central venue must've been quite pricey, surely?

 

[Logan Sama]

Mix It Up promotions backed every Eskimo Dance financially, Wiley provided the links to the artist and the name/face

However after 18 months of events, Eskimo Dance now can't be held in London due to arrests being made at the door of the last event, and a large number of police being recquired to attend the one before that to deal with the thousand people who couldn't actually get into the rave as it was full who were left mingling on the streets.

 

[gumdrops]

so was eskimo dance marketed to clubs as a 'grime' rave?

 

[droid]

End point? Kids don't go to raves.

Dont know how you misspent your youth... the mid to late teens are the prime ages for raving!

 

[hint]

Dont know how you misspent your youth... the mid to late teens are the prime ages for raving!

but "raves" these days = nights running in licensed venues