Americanisation of the English Right

[wg-]

Personally I don't view the current incarnation as the heir to Blair, and don't think they have been probably since Boris. Since then it has simply been an operation to raise a certain group of UK millionaires to comparable value to the new US batch of billionaires and everything else was irrelevant.

It will be intriguing in some ways (to me at least) to see the effects of new South African billionaires funding Trump this time around. I would expect some new narratives to emerge?

 

[Benny Bunter]

Even Badenoch, supposedly pretty hard right, was minister for Equalities, so even she's a Blairite really. They all are by default, pretty much. It's a long time ago now so people forget, but that's when the big radical changes came in that put paid to small c conservatism maybe forever.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It is interesting to see how the vocal online "right" in the UK have begun to involve themselves so deeply with exactly what the American right tell them is correct and regurgitate these points so neatly and in sync with everyone else. Without wanting to create nostalgia for your traditional English Tory the market and audience has changed dramatically and your "small c" Conservative is likely in decline now. I was absolutely amazed to see my area flip to Labour this time around but for all his issues, Starmer is much more akin to the traditional Tory than your modern Internet evangelist

However, the globalisation effects of the internet have in a lot of ways homogonised the talking points globally. I think that the synchronisation of the attack points across some platforms is incredibly easy now, it's a really impressive media strategy in a lot of ways and far eclipses anything the supposed Left can manage. But what we are really referring to there is more of a loose conglomerate of contrary opinions rather than the mechanism of the modern right I guess

Do you have any examples?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

But in important respects Britain is moving away from the US e.g. all the "hate laws", which makes it more difficult for the discourse to map onto our situation. If anything, the US left may be 'inspired' by the existence of these UK laws so watch that space.

 

[version]

However, the globalisation effects of the internet have in a lot of ways homogenised the talking points globally. I think that the synchronisation of the attack points across some platforms is incredibly easy now, it's a really impressive media strategy in a lot of ways and far eclipses anything the supposed Left can manage. But what we are really referring to there is more of a loose conglomerate of contrary opinions rather than the mechanism of the modern right I guess

It's disorientating seeing these reports of deportations going up under Labour whilst the people who've been screaming for just that for over a decade remain furious with them. They're doing exactly what that lot wanted the Tories to do, and hope Farage will do if he ever takes power, yet the information's either not reaching them or they just refuse to believe it.

I've had a look at the latest clips on GB News and TalkTV and they're mostly talking about Clarkson's tax dodge, 'wokeness', Musk and COVID... I think we're gonna see Musk throwing more and more resources at us and Europe. There's suddenly much more coverage of him over here now he's in with Trump and X is firmly in the hands of the right.

 

[wg-]

No-one English really uses twitter anymore though do they it's fucking empty every time I go on it now

I know what you're saying but it's become a bit of a weird echo chamber

 

[version]

Still find it strange the people behind it willingly sold it to him. I know money's more or less everything, but you'd think given how invested they were in steering the conversation online they'd be adamant about not handing the platform to someone on the right.

 

[version]

When I was looking at GB News earlier I noticed Matt Goodwin now has a show on there. It's been funny to see him go from academic to right wing mouthpiece. The first I heard of him was when he published his book on the populist wave of 2016, now he's some frothing TV pundit. Wonder whether he was always like that and just kept a lid on it, or whether he fell down the rabbit hole during his research.

 

[version]

it's a really impressive media strategy in a lot of ways and far eclipses anything the supposed Left can manage.

The problem for the left over here seems to be a combination of the public being fairly conservative and the right being more appealing to those with the money to fund a media operation. They just can't seem to counter the right's messaging either. If they try to remain reasoned and factual it doesn't get the traction the right's sensationalism does, but if they try to ape that sensationalism then it also doesn't get that sort of traction, plus it comes off as embarrassing and inauthentic.

That period when Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey were being interviewed every week was probably the most convincing I've seen anyone on the left in the media in quite a while and I haven't seen much of them since the strikes wound down, their focus is obviously rail workers and they weren't looking for media positions anyway.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

If they try to remain reasoned and factual it doesn't get the traction the right's sensationalism does, but if they try to ape that sensationalism then it also doesn't get that sort of traction, plus it comes off as embarrassing and inauthentic.

lol

All it took for Twitter to become right dominated was for the algorithm to be made neutral. That shows you how reasoned and factual the left's arguments are at the moment.

 

[version]

All it took for Twitter to become right dominated was for the algorithm to be made neutral. That shows you how reasoned and factual the left's arguments are at the moment.

Firstly, I wouldn't take Musk at his word when he claims the algorithm's been made neutral. Secondly, you've just illustrated one of the things I was saying. Something being reasonable and factual is a hindrance when attempting to grab attention. How can being calm and sensible compete with fantasy and apocalypticism in an attention economy? And don't now say "Oh, because the left are calm and sensible?" because I'm not denying the presence of hysterical prognosticators on the left and I don't like them either.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Firstly, I wouldn't take Musk at his word when he claims the algorithm's been made neutral. Secondly, you've just illustrated one of the things I was saying. Something being reasonable and factual is a hindrance when attempting to grab attention. How can being calm and sensible compete with fantasy and apocalypticism in an attention economy? And don't now say "Oh, because the left are calm and sensible?" because I'm not denying the presence of hysterical prognosticators on the left and I don't like them either.

If the algorithm's biased then someone would have good evidence...does this evidence exist?

I think the problem is you're tuned into a minority of ranters because they present the views that are most different to yours, but to people in the centre or on the right generally the ranters don't have much novelty value and they go for proper meaty stuff instead.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

The left's equivalent of these ranters are the sloganeering zealots who pick a line and vociferously defend it not only against more expansive views from the right but also ones on the left itself, as is evident in the Israel and trans threads here. Their intimidation tactics may well lower the volume of the left's voice more than the right's...in other words, much of the left is drowned out by the far left as much as by the right.

 

[version]

If the algorithm's biased then someone would have good evidence...does this evidence exist?

I'm not claiming it is, I'm saying I wouldn't take Elon's word for it. The fact I haven't personally seen any evidence of it doesn't render the bloke trustworthy and impartial.

I think the problem is you're tuned into a minority of ranters because they present the views that are most different to yours, but to people in the centre or on the right generally the ranters don't have much novelty value and they go for proper meaty stuff instead.

Perhaps, but that's inevitably where the energy's coming from and what drives most of the engagement online. It's what a lot of people seem to be consuming as the news, if they follow news.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I think it's quite obvious that the right is more tolerant of dissent within its ranks than the left is.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I'm not claiming it is, I'm saying I wouldn't take Elon's word for it. The fact I haven't personally seen any evidence of it doesn't render the bloke trustworthy and impartial.

As a free speech advocate and crusader against biases such as DEI I think the cognitive dissonance of skewing the platform would be more trouble than it's worth. The Community Notes feature is nicely bipartisan, which would reflect an unbiased site.

 

[version]

I think it's quite obvious that the right is more tolerant of dissent within its ranks than the left is.

Possibly, but the Americans are pretty harsh on anyone on their side taking shots at Trump. They're immediately branded a RINO and dismissed due to failing the purity test.

 

[version]

As a free speech advocate...

 

[mixed_biscuits]

re intolerance of internal disagreement, it's frequently seen here when a left-leaning poster wants to say something slightly incongruent they'll preface it with a spiel about how they're a proper leftist, always have been, always will be blah blah, please don't kill me please don't cast me out of the leftist herd. The social dynamics are hilarious and unconducive to a rational debate.

When, at a Rand meetup, I came up with an argument that generalised Rand's trader principle to justify social welfare and taxation I didn't first have to say 'I am a true believer in Randism and shall never deviate from the loyal path of the divine Rand...' and nor did any of them shout at me for saying something that would completely demolish the right-wing tenor of Randian thought.

When the odd leftist turned up to a Rand meeting the leftie would inevitably start shouting once they got frustrated with the assembled company's refusal to genuflect before their principles.

 

[Murphy]

No-one cares, youth