THE SEMIOTIC WOUND

[vershy versh]

I was just trying to work out my top ten novels of the year that I read, and I got caught up in some EPIC slog reads, but "Creation Lake', the Kushner spy noir is probably going to be in the upper reaches of my TOP 10 of 2024

TIP!

I'll wait for the paperback or grab a PDF at some point.

 

[william_kent]

@sus said: Choppers


oh, there are several passages in CREATION LAKE where Kushner takes the piss about bikers and their stupid posture


you need to read the book, it's funny, unlike the book I'll never read that won a prize

 

[sus]

Will Kent, I had no idea you were such a reader!

 

[sus]

Btw is my tarot inheritance still on the table?

I got a great new deck for my partner Nico for Christmas

 

[william_kent]

Btw is my tarot inheritance still on the table?

I got a great new deck for my partner Nico for Christmas

I've put money on the table for MY LOVE OF MY LIFE, she doesn't know that some point in the future she will receiving a Georges Bataille erotic deck,


but obviously she gets dibs on the best decks, but we can come to an understanding where I gift you some choice cards

I haven't even begun to reveal my tarot collection, but from what you've seen make some decisions and before I get diagnosed maybe we can create a covenant or whatever

 

[sus]

Haven't even begun?? You've posted two dozen Tower cards! How many decks can a man own?

 

[william_kent]

Haven't even begun?? You've posted two dozen Tower cards! How many decks can a man own?

I only need one, the SWISS IJJ tarot, but I have an interest in variants for "reasons"

 

[vershy versh]

The idea of the semiotic wound is that before, people thought the signifier and signified were the same thing? But then Saussure caused them to wake up out of this hallucination?

I'm trying to imagine how them being one would even work, how would it sit in your mind. The word being the thing. It seems impossible. Reminds me of what Luke or whoever it was reading Le Guin was saying a few years ago about how knowing the real name for something gives you power over it in one of her books. I'm sure there's something in TechGnosis prodding around this subject too.

Maybe it would manifest as something like synesthesia, a confusion of the senses. There's a line running through the znore essay Luke posted in the Time-mind thread about touch being the fifth sense and a convergence of the four, the center, rather than a sense in its own right.

Sontag's talk of the form/content split being imposed upon art also comes to mind.

 

[vershy versh]

There's a clip of Peter O'Toole, Orson Welles, an old Shakespearean actor and an interviewer discussing Hamlet where they're talking about the speed of Shakespeare's thought and how another actor found it difficult to think and keep up and O'Toole says the point is that you don't have to think, the line is the thought.

20:54

 

[vershy versh]

I think for kids (the ones under 20 now) it's true that there is so seperation.

One thing I have been rather impressed by is the way they coin new phrases and words, which don't just replace old terms but which seem to also alter and intensify the meaning of the word.

Like 'rizz' for example, which simply abbreviates charisma but obviously doesn't just mean 'charisma'. The whole concept of charisma has been revamped, rejuvenated as a social category on account of the word 'rizz'. There is a gravitational force to it, it has a totally new cultural authority. The way the signifier creates its own signified.

 

[kid charlemagne]

boom. i was thinking of going to a book store calle "lot 49" tomorrow..... they surely have some of his work if they have that name.

they had his work i bought portrait of an artist as a young man, the odyssey (because suspended mentioned it to me in another thread), and Vineland because i would like to start reading pynchon again

 

[vershy versh]

the odyssey

This is where several of us swoop in and demand to know which translation.

 

[vershy versh]

The idea of the semiotic wound is that before, people thought the signifier and signified were the same thing? But then Saussure caused them to wake up out of this hallucination?

I've just read some Baudrillard where he contradicts this and says the problem is the distinction used to be clear and now it isn't.

 

[Mr. Tea]

This is where several of us @woops in and demand to know which translation.

 

[vershy versh]

I suppose the key question's whether there's any benefit to thinking in terms of signified and signifier? Does it allow us to do anything we otherwise couldn't?

 

[vershy versh]

"The information of the message is only reduced by the addressee when he selects a definite interpretation"

Umberto Eco, A Theory of Semiotics, 1974

Lot 49 coming up in this thread's useful as it's basically the above turned into a novella.

I've also just read something contrasting 'post-truth' and 'post-reality',

Post-reality is far more encompassing than post-truth. Truth is derived from reality while reality exists independently. Put differently, the reality in 2014 was that armed individuals had invaded Crimea. Several truths were derived from this reality. In one truth, the armed individuals were Russian. In another truth, the armed individuals were not Russian. Yet in both truths, the reality was one and the same.​

​

In post-reality we enter an age of endless realities. In one reality, armed individuals have invaded Crimea; In another reality, Crimea is free while daily life goes on normally. This reality is well documented. Images of Crimeans going about daily life are shared across multiple media; videos of Ukraine’s President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, ensuring the world that no one invaded Ukraine can easily be found; while CIA satellite images, shared online, “prove” that no Russian forces have entered Ukraine. Each of these realities can then serve as the basis of many truths. Post-reality is thus a force multiplier. If there are a hundred realities, then there can be a thousand truths, as truths are derived from reality. If there are a million realities, there can be 10,000,000 truths. Post-reality scales up the phenomenon of post-truth and creates a world where nothing can be agreed upon and where there are no facts.​

​

Public Diplomacy in the Era of Post-Reality

In the post-truth era, public diplomacy counters online falsehoods and promotes compelling digital narratives for one's own truth.

uscpublicdiplomacy.org

 

[Murphy]

https://philpapers.org/rec/BARATD-4

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I suppose the key question's whether there's any benefit to thinking in terms of signified and signifier? Does it allow us to do anything we otherwise couldn't?

The Argos catalogue wouldn't make much sense without it.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Lot 49 coming up in this thread's useful as it's basically the above turned into a novella.

I've also just read something contrasting 'post-truth' and 'post-reality',

Post-reality is far more encompassing than post-truth. Truth is derived from reality while reality exists independently. Put differently, the reality in 2014 was that armed individuals had invaded Crimea. Several truths were derived from this reality. In one truth, the armed individuals were Russian. In another truth, the armed individuals were not Russian. Yet in both truths, the reality was one and the same.​

​

In post-reality we enter an age of endless realities. In one reality, armed individuals have invaded Crimea; In another reality, Crimea is free while daily life goes on normally. This reality is well documented. Images of Crimeans going about daily life are shared across multiple media; videos of Ukraine’s President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, ensuring the world that no one invaded Ukraine can easily be found; while CIA satellite images, shared online, “prove” that no Russian forces have entered Ukraine. Each of these realities can then serve as the basis of many truths. Post-reality is thus a force multiplier. If there are a hundred realities, then there can be a thousand truths, as truths are derived from reality. If there are a million realities, there can be 10,000,000 truths. Post-reality scales up the phenomenon of post-truth and creates a world where nothing can be agreed upon and where there are no facts.​

​

Public Diplomacy in the Era of Post-Reality

In the post-truth era, public diplomacy counters online falsehoods and promotes compelling digital narratives for one's own truth.

uscpublicdiplomacy.org

There may be facts but we don't have access to them because Kant.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

His comparison between post-truth and post-reality is skewed as he restricts the description of the former to a single event. The confusion in the latter stems from selective use of a restricted subset of those events and their interpretation. That's why people should give criteria for their interpretations. If this is done one is much more likely to agree on a common interpretation regardless of the Kantian caveat. In other words nothing unusual or new is going on in either case.