questions you are dying to ask but are too scared to b/c of music nerd cred?

[mms]

Yes

It is unsanitory

sounds more like a health and safetly issue more than a medical one.

 

[bassnation]

but i also think that in britain people to an extent use dancehall to talk about thier own homophobia. i mean black music or culture is a traditional 'other' for the british mainstream, so one might talk about the traditionalism of male roles in (an imaginary version of) a black culture so we dont have to note that the 'solid' alternative music of the student market; maximo park /franz ferdinand /the stroke /the libertines/ whatever arctic monkeys for the last five years or more includes no women artists.
'normal' brits can object to the content of dancehall, thereby doing their bit for the good fight but not having to examine their own attitude or give anything up.

i don't really agree with this. so the preponderance of record-company manufactured male indie bands is evidence of brits latent homophobia or sexism? this just doesn't ring true. wouldn't it be possible for a young gay man to be into these bands and what would that mean? its hardly as if these bands are macho role models for heterosexuality. beyond that, there are stacks of female artists in the charts.

of course theres both latent and overt homophobia in the uk - recently a gay man was beaten to death on clapham common. why come with oblique conspiracies where there are none when there are really serious issues of equality to be dealing with?

 

[bassnation]

did you ever smoke or drink alcohol, logan, or drive a car, praps?
=far riskier behaviour in terms of health than, say, rimming or other 'unsanitory' sexual practises

sorry if i sound glib or pisstaking i find your attitude on this curiously backward
what is yr view of heterosexual promiscuity?

its not like vaginal sex is 100% sanitary either. both the foreskin and the vaginal walls allow access to a dense network of blood vessels making it very easy to transmit germs. if logan feels that way, he'd be better off becoming celibate.

 

[simon silverdollar]

i

i think i find stuff about aggressive sexism and stereotyped gender in dancehall upsetting

dancehall does have a fair number of very strong, take-no-shit female MCs though- lady saw, cecile, tanya stephens, ms thing. in a way, its one of the less sexist music scenes in the world. being female doesn't seem to be as much of a barrier to success as it is in other scenes.

in fact, i read somewhere that jamaica is, on certain measures, one of the least sexist societies in the world- i think it has the highest proportion of women in work of anywhere in the world, for example.

 

[Logan Sama]

It isn't really backwards or "unenlightened". It is medical fact that the vaginal wall is far less likely to perforate during penetrative sex than the anal cavity.

And yes, I have a problem with heterosexual promiscuity. In terms of the reproductive organs containing germs, I can't remember the last time I washed the inside of my backside in the shower, so the levels of germs are not comparable, and secondly, even with the lower level of bacteria I still don't believe such things should be put in people's mouths.

And what's with the mocking remarks? I have my valid beliefs on various sexual practises, and the "enlightened" members of this forum of open minded individuals sees fit to mock and claim I am backward. Surely that is a double standard.

 

[sufi]

sorry to mock Logan, but i wouldn't like people to be put off dissensus by letting homophobic attitudes be unchallenged, & i hope mocking is at least a gentle type of diss for such an ugly attitude
your thoughts on smoking/drinking/driving?

 

[h-crimm]

dancehall does have a fair number of very strong, take-no-shit female MCs though

yeah i think there's a greater proportion of successful women, taken more seriously, in dancehall or grime or pop than in british 'serious' music (indie/rock). but i think any discussion about that tends to look the other way.
i also dont get offended by it in indie boybands cos i dont listen to them. i felt the same when someone put on that doors song about being in charge of your woman as when i listen to some stupidly rape focussed beenieman song... only i dont really come into contact with the former.

the example of indie bands was a bit of an irrelevant one it's true, bassnation. there are more important ones for definite, just thought i'd try and bring it back to music. take instead the discussion of rising violence in our society, the agreed way to discuss this is in terms of implicitly black urban gun crime, in a semi-imaginary alien 'gang' culture. the fact that a thousand times as many people have been killed by the illegal aggression of the govenment is not part of this discussion. yes those people are somewhere else, yes we cant see them or count them, its unlikely we know them, but the governement is setting the example that violent escalation is the way to prove youre right. besides most people doing violent crime locally (if the war doesnt count) are white drunks, but that's too close to talk about.

people in england are more willing to criticise the macho nature of 50 cent's posing than they are about the lack of equal pay for equal work, even when the latter is a far more integral part of thier lives.

we've been abit swamped with the so soild news recently in my neighbourhood so i'm probably just sick of hearing about it

 

[dHarry]

It isn't really backwards or "unenlightened". It is medical fact that the vaginal wall is far less likely to perforate during penetrative sex than the anal cavity.

And yes, I have a problem with heterosexual promiscuity.

It's also a medical fact that heterosexual penetrative sex within a monogamous relationship very often leads to vaginal infection (which used to be known as "honeymoon disease"). Not to mention STDs in a more loose scenario.

So it could be argued that it's not only homosexual practice and heterosexual promiscuity you should have a problem with, but nearly all sexual contact, if its capacity for causing and spreading infection is your criterion.

You were wondering if it was reprehensible to be disgusted at certain intimate homesexual acts - as was pointed out, why care about others' bedroom activities? It seems like a pretty pointless thing to dwell on, and particular acts certainly don't define anyone's personality or life.

But at a deeper level, why are you disgusted by the way other people share pleasure and love? Try replacing "pleasure and love" with every thought you formulate with "sodomy" in it - e.g. "I just don't believe our reproductive organs were designed for [pleasure and love]" - doesn't make any sense, does it? Disgust has nothing to do with medical or biological "fact". You may as well be disgusted with the concept of using a penis (a transmitter of urine - shock!) for straight sex.

Surely the point of being able to think is to crowbar open prejudices and discard them when it's obvious that they don't serve any purpose than to divide people and foster hatred.

End of sermon.

 

[tryptych]

Unprotected vaginal sex is certainly a higher risk activity for almost all STDs than oral sex of any kind. And the level of bacteria in the average mouth is a lot higher than around the genitals - urine is virtualy sterile.

So I don't think there's any medical/sanitary reasons to not engage in oral sex (assuming one's partner washes fairly regularly!).

 

[henry s]

excellent...we've practically come full circle, given that this thread started with a question about "showerface"...

 

[bassnation]

excellent...we've practically come full circle, given that this thread started with a question about "showerface"...

LOL

 

[baboon2004]

Jesus, this debate has been very enlightening as to the ridiculous attitudes some people hold... big up to Mr Bassnation for repeatedly being the voice of sanity.

 

[bassnation]

Jesus, this debate has been very enlightening as to the ridiculous attitudes some people hold... big up to Mr Bassnation for repeatedly being the voice of sanity.

lol, thanks - even if thats the first time anyones said that to me!

 

[DonRuba]

Yes

It is unsanitory

If this is your reason, then why would you be talking about "the intimate physical acts homosexuals carry out"? Why not just say "anal sex and oral sex"? And why even bring up this question in this discussion?

These acts ought to be just as disgusting to you when performed by a man and a woman as when performed by two men (or two women) if you're only conserned with the sanitary aspects.

So I suppose you have no problem whatsoever with a gay couple having anal sex if they're wearing a condom?

And of course you find heterosexual vaginal penetrative sex without condom far more disgusting than homosexual anal penetrative sex with a condom?

 

[Logan Sama]

Interesting.

What exactly did I say that displayed a phobia of homosexuals, or even an irrational prejudice against them as people?

 

[Melchior]

What exactly did I say that displayed a phobia of homosexuals, or even an irrational prejudice against them as people?

I'd say this one:

I have a problem with gay sex on medical grounds.

The point being that you specifiying "gay sex" betrays your prejudices as you didn't say "anal and oral sex regardless of who is doing it"

I have my valid beliefs on various sexual practises, and the "enlightened" members of this forum of open minded individuals sees fit to mock and claim I am backward. Surely that is a double standard.

I don't see it as a double standard, but that's probably because I don't see you beliefs as "valid" as such. Certainly no mor valid than someone who says that black people shouldn't be allowed into a counry because there is high AIDS in Africa (it's a medical issue)

 

[jack]

This Is Giving Me Different Jokes Alie

 

[Logan Sama]

Your last comment was absolutely asinine.

If that is the honest level of discussion that can be expected on this forum then I doubt I'll be partaking much anymore.

And I also doubt anyone will be bothered either way.

Had I decided to voice my opinion on "gay sex" in a topic which was not specifically discussing homosexuals, then yes, I would be singling out gays and voicing my opinions when they were of nobodies concern nor interest.

Seeing as I asked a question pertaining to the the past page of discussion regarding various people's standpoints on the homosexual lifestyle, how in the blue hell does it "betray my prejudices"?

I am prejudiced against the idea of inserting any part of my body inside my own or anyone elses anal cavity, amongst other sexual practises. I would not have ever mentioned it had people not spent a page of discussion about various viewpoints on aspects of homosexual lifestyle.

 

[mpc]

fucking hell logan can you ALLOW the more than 3 word answers please. i don't have time to read all this stuff.

what do you think about dogging?

what about anal dogging, where you watch someone else have anal sex?

 

[echevarian]

I for one don't find Logan's beliefs offensive,
he's entitled to them and seems willing to discuss them in a rational way.

I think that much of popular backlash in the West against homosexuals can be attributed to well meaning people enforcing their opinions in academia and in the media.

I'm not asking anyone to censor anyone, or even censor themselves for my benefit.

As for whether homosexual sex is more unsanitary than say... missionary position heterosexual sex

I really can't say.

I do know that homosexual sex is fucking dangerous, literally.

When gay men make mistakes sexually we often pay for them,

where heterosexuals might just pick up a garden variety STD,

we shorten our lifespan by half or three quarters.


But if some prick wants to fuck with me because he saw me kiss my boyfriend on the street,

my lifestyle is offensive to him, fine

but he wants to hurt me because of this, I will get offended and I will defend myself.


I don't find terms like faggot, or queer especially offensive.

I use them myself, but I will not lie down for some asshole to walk over me,

beat the shit out of me, because he has wet dreams involving other men.