DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[noel emits]

There is nothing to suggest that original journeys will be accepted into the genre as it stands unless it is made by an established 'forefather' or cliquey nepotist insider nor that it will generate interest from the backasswards looking scene unless it gets played out by Ma Hobbes or Joe Nice with a follow up vinyl release

What's the real issue here? People have to hear stuff before they can be interested in it. And I think both MAH and Joe Nice (and many other DJs) have been playing stuff that's been sent to them unsolicited. Nothing to suggest that's not the case.

I know about cliquey, locked-off, stale scenes, but I really don't think that applies here. There's a hunger for good sounds wherever they come from.

Does it truly have to be about decaying london streets for it to be dubstep...

I should let Blackdown speak for himself of course, but it seems to me he's saying the opposite? That your dubstep can't really be about London streets if you haven't been there. I grew up in London but I don't live there at the moment, so I wouldn't consider my music to about London now.

and where's the evidence for well proven dead ends of dance music past ???

The article gives examples. Not enough? I think it's fair to voice concerns about the directions a music you care about might take as a whole. You don't have to listen to those concerns. If you can make wicked track using all of the mentioned 'dead-ends' then great! You might even inaugurate a new genre.

 

[elgato]

On another note, does anyone know if Mary Anne Hobbs Warrior Dubs is also a vinyl pack? If so, what tracks come on the vinyl version?

yeh man, 4LP, tracklisting is here

 

[the undisputed truth]

man come on, do you not see how much it undermines you to constantly labour over your percieved personal injustices? there may be some worthwhile debate on the points that you raise, but you state them in such an over the top manner, and with such obvious bitterness that they lose ALL credibility!

in that passage he is in fact embracing the idea of worldwide influences on dubstep's development... he's saying that its exciting to think what can come of it not that there is stuff that is exciting being made at the mo.

as to your last paragraph... obviously there is a degree to which the scene is closed, its pretty much inevitable. but skream plays a lot of tunes from unknown producers nowadays, n-type is bringing new producers to the fore (many of whom are from outside of both london and the UK), kode9 has always been open. its a complete farce that you bring joe nice up on that, he has always been incredibly good at giving new producers a chance to be aired. furthermore, international dubsteppers have already broken into the central fold... moving ninja, l-wiz. so while the scene is fairly rigid, its not as ridiculous as your characterisation might have one believe!

basically you should accept that different people have different tastes, and will act accordingly... theres no need to react so ridiculously to it, and throw around such laughable generalisations.

It's not a case of personal injustices and how I write is just how I write. I like being OTT and making sweeping generalizations. The fact that you can't get past that to see the worthwhile points doesn't detract from the points themsselves it just gives you a convenient diversion to not address them while maikng it possible for you to follow up with more animated comments.

In that passage he's embracing global dubstep as long as it doesn't follow what he percives to be dead ends like house, breaks and d'n'b but that shit has been around a lot longer than the roots of dubstep which was garage and the fact that no one is making any 2step of note yet there is still consistently good d'n'b, house and breaks shows where the real dead end is.

Also why should chinese/japanese/latino or whatever feel they have to incorporate their ethnic sounds into it when there is a plethora of UK cultural tourists already doing it ??? How would it be any different if not just more authentic.

And what of urban monoculture outside of the UK. London isn't theonly place with decaying city streets. If youve' seen one you've seen em all just like a McDonalds the world over.

The joe nice thing is in relation to the backwards looking dubplate, vinyl and promo system to big name DJ's still employed by dubstep to showcase emerging talent. Even the casual metnion of barefiles hosting radio sets is more about trad broadcasting of radio than it is about new forms of promotion and distro using the net

I've heard more interesting beats by others but it's almost unless DMZ make one then it is not worthy of exploration and they get lauded for being adventurous and if any body then copies that they're clones.

I'm just sick of his constantly riding london, hyperdub and dmz's dick. Almost to the exclusion of other emerging and current labels breaking more fertile ground in other places. Scuba/hotflush for instance if anything it was their year and Ascension with tech itch doing some interesting stuff or Juju and DTL putting stateside production firmly on the map.

Everything apart from the piece I highlighted was backasswards looking and that is why i don't see much of a future for dubstep beyond current faddishness. At least with techno/house/d'n'b they were all forward looking using technolgy to propel it. The only visionary reference blackdown seems to have is a wistful hope that people will make their own dubstep journeys more personal and enviro conscious. How very nu agey !!!

I think I'm gonna go spark one up and ya'll can meditate on that

 

[noel emits]

It just so happens that dubstep is blessed with some great (well, really good) artists. And many of them have been responsible for making it what it is.

Unless everyone decides to start making funky house I don't think there's much reason to worry just yet.

 

[the undisputed truth]

Once again don't read too much into what i post. I'm just excessively rant prone and opinionated. Carry on.

 

[petergunn]

RE: Peter Gunn: I also find it annoying that the vocal version of Tapped is still unreleased. I figured that it'd appear on that Tapped/Dutch Flowers release, but it was left out and I'm still trying to figure out why.

b/c they are still working from the paradigm that dubstep dj's don't play vocals... i.e. it's a dance music culture and the records are just raw tools... maybe it's another reason for me to get serato...

 

[bassnation]

It just so happens that dubstep is blessed with some great (well, really good) artists. And many of them have been responsible for making it what it is.

Unless everyone decides to start making funky house I don't think there's much reason to worry just yet.

well, funny you should say that. i'm sat here listening to el-b "express" from the rather fine "roots of dubstep" comp and just thinking how much it sounds like house music.

 

[elgato]

the direction for dubstep (of those which i can conceive) which excites me most is house/techno-ward (although not funky!)... i think great things that way lie, not just in interface with the most obvious world of minimal

a very interesting new track which has just emerged is Feel Me by Distance, which is the last track on this cyrus SubFM mix. its more or less a techno track with a dubstep aesthetic, so it represents a relatively tentative step in the direction of the broader possibilities, but i think its absolutely incredible

also, an incredibly exciting new artist on the scene is Magnetic Man, whoever it may be... and their tunes are clearly drawing on the house sound, its something made completely overt (by the use of a well-known house vocal sample on their track)... again, it just sounds SO fresh and exciting

 

[elgato]

It's not a case of personal injustices and how I write is just how I write. I like being OTT and making sweeping generalizations. The fact that you can't get past that to see the worthwhile points doesn't detract from the points themsselves it just gives you a convenient diversion to not address them while maikng it possible for you to follow up with more animated comments.

thats one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read. you more or less accept that you sacrifice worthwhile discussion for self-indulged intelectual laziness! given this, im going to try to let this be the last time i actually engage in discussion with you, cos you've more or less just openly said that you're choosing to waste peoples' time! "a convenient diversion" - LOL. you in fact put the convenient diversions in place so you have less chance of having to deal with any real debate on the issues

In that passage he's embracing global dubstep as long as it doesn't follow what he percives to be dead ends like house, breaks and d'n'b but that shit has been around a lot longer than the roots of dubstep which was garage and the fact that no one is making any 2step of note yet there is still consistently good d'n'b, house and breaks shows where the real dead end is.

the way i read that point (so clearly its a subjective interpretation, i cant speak for him) was rather that he doesnt want to see (e.g.) 'dubstep done liquid' - i.e. a standardised dubstep framework with all the aesthetic qualities associated with liquid dnb... which is fair enough really. its obviously a subjective perspective, its not like he's laying claim to any kind of fundamental truths (at least i dont think).

Also why should chinese/japanese/latino or whatever feel they have to incorporate their ethnic sounds into it when there is a plethora of UK cultural tourists already doing it ??? How would it be any different if not just more authentic.

is he saying they should have to? or rather that he's excited at the prospect of such developments?!

And what of urban monoculture outside of the UK. London isn't theonly place with decaying city streets. If youve' seen one you've seen em all just like a McDonalds the world over.

this i agree with this

The joe nice thing is in relation to the backwards looking dubplate, vinyl and promo system to big name DJ's still employed by dubstep to showcase emerging talent. Even the casual metnion of barefiles hosting radio sets is more about trad broadcasting of radio than it is about new forms of promotion and distro using the net

basically you're whinging about digital distro again aren't you. if you had stuck around the dubstepforum instead of alienating everyone with the same infuriating 'me against the world' shtick you'd see that every day top class producers are distributing 320s to their peers, djs are recording sets of unreleased material from up-and-coming producers... music is being circulated well outside of your crude characterisation of the scene. this may be a good or a bad thing, i havent decided really, but its definately not what you have decided it is

I've heard more interesting beats by others but it's almost unless DMZ make one then it is not worthy of exploration and they get lauded for being adventurous and if any body then copies that they're clones.

who are you talking about? you're doing that whole generalisation thing again, and it just means its impossible to properly discuss the issue

I'm just sick of his constantly riding london, hyperdub and dmz's dick. Almost to the exclusion of other emerging and current labels breaking more fertile ground in other places. Scuba/hotflush for instance if anything it was their year and Ascension with tech itch doing some interesting stuff or Juju and DTL putting stateside production firmly on the map.

at the end of the day he's offering his subjective perspective to stimulate thought... if people disagree they should voice their perspectives in considered and structured responses. you cant criticise him for what he loves, you cant force someone to big-up something they dont feel! you need to stop bitching and contriving half-arsed critiques on forums and start blogging or something if you actually want people to take your arguments seriously

 

[UFO over easy]

I'm just sick of his constantly riding london, hyperdub and dmz's dick. Almost to the exclusion of other emerging and current labels breaking more fertile ground in other places. Scuba/hotflush for instance if anything it was their year and Ascension with tech itch doing some interesting stuff or Juju and DTL putting stateside production firmly on the map.

Martin regularly talks about scuba/hotflush in his column.

And do you really, honestly think that drop the lime and juju, with two releases each this year, on small labels, that haven't really been played out at major raves or caused much impact (for better or for worse, I'm not debating the quality of their tracks), really deserve more column inches in an 'End Of Year Roundup' than DMZ and Hyperdub? DMZ - 6 releases or something? First birthday so rammed that they had to move club a quarter of the way through the night. Consistently packing out a 1000 capacity venue. Signed to Soul Jazz. Playing out all over the world and on the Iration Steppas system. Hyperdub - Burial and Kode 9 albums covered in several major nationally distributed newspapers and magazines, bringing vocals and 2-step vibes back to dubstep, and generally garnering mainstream attention that vinyl exclusive labels can't touch.

I have no idea how you can expect to be taken seriously here..

 

[Sick Boy]

b/c they are still working from the paradigm that dubstep dj's don't play vocals... i.e. it's a dance music culture and the records are just raw tools... maybe it's another reason for me to get serato...

Or to get JME to come and play your set.

 

[the undisputed truth]

Ok to be fair I didn't see that it was the year in review which seems a bit strange given that there is still a couple of months to go. However lets compare it to last years pitchfork round up column. Notice the similarities ???

basically you're whinging about digital distro again aren't you.

and why not whinge about digital distro and the myspace influence in the last year. I've heard more promising stuff on myspace by the likes of metalboxproducts, jellybass and lonewolf than I have on some conventional releases. Theres some digital download dubstep on virus b23 by soundbox and markomen worth mentioning too who have also taken to selling their wares as hi bit downloads but not a mention in what is essentially the premier on line dubstep monthly. Methinks it's gonna take DMZ to start selling mp3s from their own site before blackdown will acknowledge the digital future.

It's as if nothing has changed in the last year except the Hobbes factor exposing dubstep to a wider audience but really if you didn't know that then you're woefully ignorant so it hardly makes it newsworthy.

As for juju and DTL yeah it's worth mentioning in an end of year round up even if only in 2 lines that americans have caught the virus and are replicating it to worthy standards.

or how about the triumphant return of Benga. That for me has been one of the highlights of the year for me.

music is being circulated well outside of your crude characterisation of the scene. this may be a good or a bad thing, i havent decided really, but its definately not what you have decided it is

give us a yell when you've decided then eh ? Cos that might be worth discussing but if you'd care to elaborate on just what I've decided don't bother

thats one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read. you more or less accept that you sacrifice worthwhile discussion for self-indulged intelectual laziness! given this, im going to try to let this be the last time i actually engage in discussion with you, cos you've more or less just openly said that you're choosing to waste peoples' time! "a convenient diversion" - LOL. you in fact put the convenient diversions in place so you have less chance of having to deal with any real debate on the issues...

if you had stuck around the dubstepforum instead of alienating everyone with the same infuriating 'me against the world' shtick

Choosing to waste peoples time ??? So should this place only then be a place where time spent is of vital imporatnce or is your time too valuable to waste ??? Honestly i usually haven't got the time to think things out properly and just riff it off the cuff. Since you brought it up it wasn't the 'me against the world schtick' that got me banned from that other place, it was the ignorant petty namecalling insults by others who couldn't take a joke and mods being all power crazy and PC.

at the end of the day he's offering his subjective perspective to stimulate thought... if people disagree they should voice their perspectives in considered and structured responses. you cant criticise him for what he loves, you cant force someone to big-up something they dont feel! you need to stop bitching and contriving half-arsed critiques on forums and start blogging or something if you actually want people to take your arguments seriously

When it comes right down to it i'm offering my subjective opinion and to hell with considered and structured responses. Take that shit to dubstepforum and see where it gets you...hahaha. Thanx for the advice but you need to stop personalising shit, trying to read between the lines and just deal with the points raised.

 

[elgato]

and why not whinge about digital distro and the myspace influence in the last year. I've heard more promising stuff on myspace by the likes of metalboxproducts, jellybass and lonewolf than I have on some conventional releases. Theres some digital download dubstep on virus b23 by soundbox and markomen worth mentioning too who have also taken to selling their wares as hi bit downloads but not a mention in what is essentially the premier on line dubstep monthly. Methinks it's gonna take DMZ to start selling mp3s from their own site before blackdown will acknowledge the digital future.

see to me, metalbox, jellybass and lonewolf dont even come close to 75% of released material... i certainly wouldnt think them worth mentioning in a short end of year report... no offense to any of them, but thats how it is. the virus b23 stuff i do really rate, but they're getting love from people in the scene!

edit: the virus-b23 track i rate is Boasin Tone by Deadman DJ, im not really feeling the markomen or soundbox so much... they sound quite ten a penny to me, very high production values but not too much innovation or inspiration (again, i dont want to insult hard working producers, but in the context of whether they deserve a mention in a short 12 month roundup...)

2nd edit (!): ok im feeling Dungeon Waltz and 3rd Earth (non lunatic) by Soundbox A LOT, but other than that they just dont seem to be treading their own path...far far too many arbitrary lfos for my tastes

give us a yell when you've decided then eh ? Cos that might be worth discussing but if you'd care to elaborate on just what I've decided don't bother

it is worth discussing, but before that discussion can go on, it needs to be established that your idea of the scene is massively distorted. then we can discuss value... but until that point we'd be debating how much value there is in two completely different hypotheses

Choosing to waste peoples time ??? So should this place only then be a place where time spent is of vital imporatnce or is your time too valuable to waste ??? Honestly i usually haven't got the time to think things out properly and just riff it off the cuff. Since you brought it up it wasn't the 'me against the world schtick' that got me banned from that other place, it was the ignorant petty namecalling insults by others who couldn't take a joke and mods being all power crazy and PC.

i had the impression that dissensus was a cut above the average forum, a place where free time could be spent sharing ideas and recommendations, rather than chatting shit and talking in unworkable generalisations.

as to the banning thing, i thought you were dubmugga rather than whitebait or whatever

When it comes right down to it i'm offering my subjective opinion and to hell with considered and structured responses. Take that shit to dubstepforum and see where it gets you...hahaha. Thanx for the advice but you need to stop personalising shit, trying to read between the lines and just deal with the points raised.

i never wanted it to be personalised, i in fact wanted to discuss the points raised, but as you said above you willfully place obstructions between us and decent, developed discussion, which is the problem im trying to address, so we can actually discuss the points raised.

 

[gek-opel]

What a fickle and uncharitable response imho. "Pretentious twaddle"? I would have thought that the article practically reads like a compilation of dissensus views. The sentence about mixing was a bit silly, I agree, but at least the author tried to take the majority of his language from a reputable source, i.e., Blackdown's liner notes. Wilson writes, "Clark reminds listeners of the creative influence of the DJ as exercised through the improvised manipulation of tempo and key" - which is admittedly not ideal - but he then goes on to quote Blackdown's statement that beatmatching is “the iterative art of aligning two tracks by ear in real time,” “an imprecise science” that sometimes produces "transient flickers" in tempo (where I come from "transient flickers" in tempo while beatmatching are called mistakes lol). I agree that the phrase "improvised manipulation of tempo and key" is perhaps a bit cringeworthy, but hardly offensive - more like an attempt by a non-DJ to explain to an art crowd what a DJ does. Is that so bad? He certainly doesn't make a big deal of the point.

What strikes me about your post, however, is a slightly different issue. If someone from new york who writes for an art magazine refers to K-Punk, Blackdown, Gutterbreakz, Blissblogger, and even Barefiles, you object that he is "taking offhand bloggers comments . . . as gospel," but can you imagine if the guy had written the article without referring to these people and views? You all would have immediately cried 'fraudulent hipster!' yada yada. The guy didn't make any sweeping claims about dubstep but just gave a little report; and he showed awareness of top producers, of the online critical community, he covered many aspects of the scene, referred to possible analogues in visual art, and took the photo for the article himself . . . what is so "horrific" about that?

Fickle- no, uncharitable- well I'll give you that. Comments about the improvisatory nature of DJing have always irritated me. It overcomplicates the issue of DJing, or focuses on the least interesting aspect of it, it creates a ludicrous mystique (especially as he attempts to claim these properties as somehow unique or uniquely exemplified in Dubstep, which as far as I can tell they are not). It was his lack of knowledge of dance music in general, and obviously dubstep combined with an overly zealous quote-fest of various bloggers that led to a piece which was attempting to be high brow, but emerged as actually being pretty naive. And therefore pretentious. I have less of a problem with people coming up with their own take on it, rather than slavishly following the opinions of others in a way which only exemplified his own shortcomings in terms of actual knowledge. Indeed I was disappointed that a commentator from the visual arts world wasn't able to come up with a more idiosyncratic think piece. As he was unable to do so, or use much of his own area of expertise to throw light on Dubstep, it comes across as pointless (adding little to the sum of thought) and funnily enough, hipsterish in extremis. Uncharitable I know, but...

 

[the undisputed truth]

see to me, metalbox, jellybass and lonewolf dont even come close to 75% of released material... i certainly wouldnt think them worth mentioning in a short end of year report... no offense to any of them, but thats how it is. the virus b23 stuff i do really rate, but they're getting love from people in the scene!

edit: the virus-b23 track i rate is Boasin Tone by Deadman DJ, im not really feeling the markomen or soundbox so much... they sound quite ten a penny to me, very high production values but not too much innovation or inspiration (again, i dont want to insult hard working producers, but in the context of whether they deserve a mention in a short 12 month roundup...)

2nd edit (!): ok im feeling Dungeon Waltz and 3rd Earth (non lunatic) by Soundbox A LOT, but other than that they just dont seem to be treading their own path...far far too many arbitrary lfos for my tastes



it is worth discussing, but before that discussion can go on, it needs to be established that your idea of the scene is massively distorted. then we can discuss value... but until that point we'd be debating how much value there is in two completely different hypotheses



i had the impression that dissensus was a cut above the average forum, a place where free time could be spent sharing ideas and recommendations, rather than chatting shit and talking in unworkable generalisations.

as to the banning thing, i thought you were dubmugga rather than whitebait or whatever



i never wanted it to be personalised, i in fact wanted to discuss the points raised, but as you said above you willfully place obstructions between us and decent, developed discussion, which is the problem im trying to address, so we can actually discuss the points raised.

metalbox, jellybass and lonewolf were examples of note on the mypace effect on dubstep which I feel should be acknowledged given that everyone seems to have jumped on in the last year and some producers have tunes worthy of release that would have been relatively unknown unless pimped there. More digital downloads without vinly release seem inevitable given the cost and backlog of producers and tunes. Blackdowns views just seem a bit biased and not representative of the full dubstep spectrum just the stuff he may have a vested interest in.

You seem to know what my 'distorted' vision of the scene is. Perhaps you would care to outline it and we can discuss the truth or lack of it from there.

Dissensus is a cut above other places but that doesn't mean we should standardise our writing styles for the sake of uniformity. Wheres the fun in that ? If everyone spoke the undisputed truth there would be no need for debate.

I was a number of entities over at that other forum. The latest being 'ten city'. I still visit but don't feel the need to contribute given that nothing much has changed.

As to wilfully placing obstructions, maybe you should upgrade your bullshit filter and increase your fuckwit tolerance. It would probably help in real life too.

 

[Blackdown]

Methinks it's gonna take DMZ to start selling mp3s from their own site before blackdown will acknowledge the digital future.

I personally set up the Road section of Bleep to sell dubstep MP3s and asked DMZ to join 18 months ago, you complete ...

 

[the undisputed truth]

^^^yeah i know but that still doesn't make your piece any less worthy of relevent crtitque on other matters. You prolly coulda just posted the same one from the year before and no one woulda known the difference

 

[Blackdown]

^^^yeah i know but that still doesn't make your piece any less worthy of relevent crtitque on other matters. You prolly coulda just posted the same one from the year before and no one woulda known the difference

less talk, more action big man: write your own 06 round up or stfu...

 

[the undisputed truth]

more talk leads to more reaction which leads to more action...

Playful antics aside though BD, do you know if DMZ have any plans to release backlogs solely in digital format ???

 

[nomos]

less talk, more action big man: write your own 06 round up or stfu...