george galloway on celebrity big brother

Will Self in today's Standard: 'Surely the truth is....the world is decorated in a variety of pastel shades with lots of stripped ethical pine on show. It may look tacky, but it's vastly preferable to the moral minimalism of Galloway and his ilk.'

'moral minimalism' - I dunno what the hell he means about pine, but this one is quite good.
 
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droid

Guest
Martin said:
far too much emphasis being placed on 'niceness'. Give me a straight-talking bastard over a smiling backstabber any day. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for good manners. But I'm sick of this cloying, oppressive 'niceness' being stuffed in our faces all the time, it's a double standard.

But thats not an apt description of Galloway at all - Pete - yeah - hes universally bitchy, but Galloway went behind peoples backs time and time again - and got caught out for it...

Isnt bitching behind peoples backs and discussing who you want to get rid of the definition of backstabbing in this context? :confused:

Agree with the above regarding the exit and interview. Remarkably dignified considering.
 
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gabriel

The Heatwave
owen said:
what puzzles me rather is that Galloway genuinely didn't seem to think about the fact that he'd be edited in the most grotesque light, that any political comment would be edited out, etc etc...

yeah it seems to display a staggering lack of foresight and awareness doesn't it

one of the things about pete burns being a cynical nasty wanker is that it'd probably be funny if he picked on someone like galloway or barrymore or rodman cos they'd have a barney and i'm sure i'd laugh and enjoy it, but when he attacks people like preston and chantelle and traci whose self esteem/self confidence is basically so low that that they're unable to defend themselves in any meaningful way, it becomes pretty painful.
 

owen

Well-known member
droid said:
But thats not an apt description of Galloway at all - Pete - yeah - hes universally bitchy, but Galloway went behind peoples backs time and time again - and got caught out for it...

Isnt bitching behind peoples backs and discussing who you want to get rid of the definition of backstabbing in this context? :confused:
Erm, I was talking about the audience rather than the house itself....
 
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droid

Guest
martin said:
But I'm sick of this cloying, oppressive 'niceness' being stuffed in our faces all the time, it's a double standard.

I for one would welcome anyone who feels like oppressing me with kindness, and would enjoy having a big cloying chunk of niceness stuffed into my face for a change - so please let me know if you want to send some of your surplus my way... :D
 
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droid

Guest
owen said:
Erm, I was talking about the audience rather than the house itself....

Sorry Owen - I meant to address Martins quote, but ended up with your name there instead... :eek:
 

martin

----
droid said:
I for one would welcome anyone who feels like oppressing me with kindness, and would enjoy having a big cloying chunk of niceness stuffed into my face for a change - so please let me if you want to send some of your surplus my way... :D

Hippie
 
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droid

Guest
martin said:

lol..

Good Galloway post here. Needless to say I dont agree with it all, but it includes a qualification that all commentators should take note of:

Now I know whilst in the Big Brother house, he certainly looked like a bully [who knows, perhaps he is] but the key thing is, I don't know, I don't "know" him...I know a version of him. And here is the crux of the issue
 

jasonh

Newbie
I do support Galloway's stance on the war, but CBB has managed to be edited in such a way (and he has portrayed himself, let's not forget) as a bullying, misogynistic, egomaniacal twat of the first order.

Notwithstanding the fact that I didn't like her much myself, his (along with Pete and Barrymore's) treatment of Jodie Marsh in the first few days was terrible.

The worst thing is, I've continued to watch the bloody programme despite the fact that the people on it are hateful, narcissistic, talentless fools. Galloway fitted in rather well!
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
droid said:
Would I be right to sum up the two sides of the argument as follows?

1/ Those who view BB as some kind of socio/philospophical barometer or theatrical representation of british society, in which the actions of those involved are relatively unimportant compared to their percieved political status and what they abstractly (but subjectively) 'represent', automatically despise the dull but 'nice' Chantelle/Preston et al as representative of modern 'conservative yoof' (Urgh - But just look at how 'trendy' they are!) and reflexifly defend Galloway/Burns due to their seemingly unquestioned status as 'rebels' and 'cynics'. Therefore Galloway/Best (the axis of evil ;)) cannot be criticised, no matter how bad their behaviour as they have already been pre-judged to be intrinsically superior to their opponents.

No, this is completely the wrong way round. It is Preston and Chantelle who have elected themselves as representatives of youth. Preston can barely have a conversation in which he doesn't position himself and Chantelle as 'young'; witness his initial witless assault on Galloway et al which seemed to be along the lines of 'why have those old people been allowed in here'. He, assisted by such luminaries as Chris Moyles on Radio 1 (so I hear), has continually made youth an issue, under the delusion that being young automatically makes people interesting and fun, an assumption that the mod and Chantelle have thoroughly disproven.

It's not a question of 'pre-judging' them - how could I? No-one had heard of Chantelle before CBB... same goes for Preston actually, so the analogy with Galloway fails. It is a question of POST-judging them, on the basis of their behaviour, which, actually, seems to be a legitimate criteria of judgement. The problem is not only their lack of intelligence or wit, it's their utter shamelessness about it, their lack of any but the most empty of aspirations. For it to be a question of prejudice, I would have had to have thought ANY person under 25 would be witless, lazily hedonistic and boring. I don't think that... (And presumably neither does Galloway, which may have been his 'mistake', daring to expect things from people.)

However, they have clearly struck a chord - and why is that? Because their blandness, fear and suspicion of intellect, hostility to anything out of the ordinary is obviously something that a significant proportion of their largely young audience identity with. And it's 'identifying with' those traits that troubles me. Here the Nietzsche in me comes out: Why not identify with something greater, more powerful, intelligent, charismatic than yourself? It is not self-evident that you would 'identify' with something that corresponds with your lowest expectations of yourself. Surely youth culture when it has been vibrant has been precisely about such over-reaching will to power, not quiescent, slackly narcissistic confirmation that 'it's OK to be you'. The conservatism I'm talking about is not only a political conservatism; I should say, it is not even that. Any kind of political position would be an advance on the taken-for-granted certainties of their hedontology.

And of course I'd rather spend time with Galloway and Burns than the rest of em. Not because they have been pre-judged to be intrinsically superior but because they have SHOWN themselves to be superior conservationalists, to be more interesting etc etc. And that's not in spite of but because of - again a little Nietzsche is germane here - a certain degree of harshness, unpleasantness and cruelty --- 'assuming that someone takes the affects of hate, envy, greed, and ruling as the affects which determine life, as something that, in the whole household of life, have to be present fundamentally and essentially, and, as a result, have to be intensified if life is to be further intensified...'

Also think it is wrong to equate the young hedocons' bland neurotic egotism with 'niceness'... it isn't even that...
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
jasonh said:
but CBB has managed to be edited in such a way (and he has portrayed himself, let's not forget) as a bullying, misogynistic, egomaniacal twat of the first order.

Egomaniacal sure, good. But misognyistic, what's the evidence for that? Because he didn't have any time for Traci, Chantelle and poor liccle Jodie? If they were representative of all women, I'd be misogynistic, and rightly so.

This bullying thing is clearly coming from people who have never been bullied. Bullying isn't about being called an idiot when you are behaving like an idiot; it's about being put-down, degraded and humiliated WHATEVER you do, for no reason and without provocation. Yeh, GG and the others could have laid off Jodie a bit (and that's easy to say when you are not being relentlessly provoked by her whining and preening in the labrat atmosphere of the house) - but to call a few completely justified insults bullying is trivializing something that can make life an unbearable hell for its real victims.
 

Droopy

New member
Hi, as a long-time lurker on these pages, I’ve been waiting for something I know about to comment on.

Before saying anything I have to say that I’d read k-punk’s analysis of the media reaction to GG going into the BB house and found it spot on. And for all those GG haters out there (and I’m one of them) I think K-P shows pretty clearly why Galloway will probably recover from the BB experience a lot quicker than people expect (idiots who think BB is worse than HIGNFY and think that pretending to be a cat on a national TV show is the worst thing you can do are the best friends GG has got).

Having said that, have you people actually been watching the programme??

The first thing, why are people grouping Rodman with Burns and Galloway against Preston, Chantelle and Barrymore? For most of the series Barrymore was the third ‘ugly sister’ and the other two only really turned against him once he sided with the youngsters in the house (and before that they were sycophantic about him in a way that the others would never be). Rodman didn’t really do anything in the house as far as I could see and was well put in his place by Chantelle and Barrymore in the ‘Big Fight’. Apart from acting as the house sex pest in the first week, the only other impression I was left with was that he was some sort of weird celebrity snob – but when you come down to it, over here in ‘London’ (as he calls this country) he’s only famous for being famous in America (so not much better than that kid…. er … what’s her name …. Chantelle….. , isn’t that right Dennis?). So why exactly would you want to know this guy – oh yeah, I forgot, he’s black and has 43 brothers and sisters (nice one George).

Anyway, moving on to Burns and Galloway:

Bulllying – K-P said that : ‘This bullying thing is clearly coming from people who have never been bullied. Bullying isn't about being called an idiot when you are behaving like an idiot; it's about being put-down, degraded and humiliated WHATEVER you do, for no reason and without provocation’.

I agree with this. But how can you say that Pete Burns isn’t a bully? He systematically sought out what he thought to be the weakest person in the house and found some reason to attack them – Jodi; Rula; Chantelle; Traci. The only time he didn’t get anywhere was with Chantelle who was too clever to get in his games. And misogynist (this applies to George as well who tended to join in Pete’s attacks once Burns had cleared the way)? Why didn’t he pick on any of the men – you’re telling me that Preston, Maggot, Dennis , Barrymore and George are better than those women? The only reason he started picking on Preston is that Chantelle would have whupped him in a fight and there was no other men left!

People say about Pete that he’s funny and a ‘straight talking bastard’ and all that shit. ‘Funny’ is difficult to argue for one way or another but I can honestly say that I can’t remember a single funny thing that Pete has said (there’s a review of a biography of Mourinho in a recent London Review of Books: ‘Barclay would have us believe that Mourinho is funny, too, but most of the time he is simply unpleasant, in a vaguely humorous sort of way’ - this sums up Pete Burns’ ‘humour’ for me, much prefer Mourinho though).

But anyway – ‘straight talking bastard’ – with Burns, the ‘straight talking’ is always an excuse for him to be a bastard. And his straight talking is *what* exactly? – Jodi’s annoying (true), Rula’s a bit mumsy (hmmm?), Traci’s fake (who knows), Chantelle’s thick (bollocks – she’s 100x smarter than Burns), Preston has shifty eyes (fair enough I guess) – thanks for those insights – and Galloway is what? – the daddy you never had by the sound of it. I’m sure people could justify his attacks against all of the housemates but tell me what exactly was the point of his rant against Preston and Chantelle? He accused them of lying in a task where they had to lie in order to get food for the house. What is straight talking about that? What is the point in that? (And does *anyone* believe Galloway’s claim that he wouldn’t have accepted the food, champagne, etc (can’t be bothered to look up the quote) – what absolute bollocks!!!- and what does that show exactly?) (obviously where deniis grew up they woiuld have got a punch in the face)

Anyway, George:
Coming into BB was a smart move (and still could be). Going in to the BB house is only negative as far as being a ‘career politician’ goes and even from an ideological point of view is clearly positive in terms of wider audiences, blah blah blah.

It doesn’t help though if you go into the BB house and act like a complete cunt.

How so:
(1) "Not at all; not at all...as is obvious now; now they admit that. He was hated by political opponents as he suppressed all opposition political forces, but he wasn't hated by the ordinary Iraqi - no, not at all".
(2) ‘you are a wicked person who has corrupted this young girl and there’s a 55-year old man crying out there and it’s all your fault!”
(3) ‘The aplomb with which you became a lying plutocrat'
(4) ‘you are a sneak and a cheat and have been revealed as a sneak and a cheat’
(5) ‘what the hell kind of men are they?’ – GG on men crying in the house
(6) saying that he’ll make no bones about it that he wants Michael to win, and later admitting that he’s ‘damaged’ but still wants him to win before laying into him less than a day after
(7) what did he say on the nominations? (can’t find it on the internet) but it was something to do with Faria having done anything to get on the programme – have you watched the programme you fool?
(8) Loads more I’m sure but very late and going to bed I’m sorryy

I don’t know, I really don’t care about George (and I've got to go to bed).

I’m annoyed that there’s so much dismissal on this thread of Chantelle! She is so obviously the best in the house by a long way but just treated here like an attachment to (the pathetic) Preston. In short, she’s better than the rest of them because: (1) she stands up for herself; (2) she’s the only one who’s shown that she can get on with someone who is different from herself; (3) she’s FUNNY! (and funny in that she doesn’t make bitchy remarks but has made me laugh out loud TWICE! Which is two times more often than anyone else – ask me and I’ll tell you)

Anyway, sorry for the long message.

Cheers!

PS – Why does showing that Rumsfeld went to Iraq invalidate evidence showing GG went to Iraq? The point of that is that Rumsfeld went there to sell arms. Okay, I understand that but why was GG there? Why does everyone say ‘I’m sympathetic to GG’s politics’ as if GG can’t be extracted from the anti-war message. Obvious point but anti-war campaigners should ditch GG straight away, might show seriousness.
 

bassnation

the abyss
firstly, welcome to dissensus droopy!

Droopy said:
PS – Why does showing that Rumsfeld went to Iraq invalidate evidence showing GG went to Iraq? The point of that is that Rumsfeld went there to sell arms. Okay, I understand that but why was GG there? Why does everyone say ‘I’m sympathetic to GG’s politics’ as if GG can’t be extracted from the anti-war message. Obvious point but anti-war campaigners should ditch GG straight away, might show seriousness.

didn't gg go to iraq on some kind of fact-finding mission about the unfairness of sanctions? thats a long way from what rumsfeld went for. although sucking up to saddam in the way that he did left a nasty taste in the mouth no matter what his intentions.

personally i agree that hes not been good for the anti-war movement. a lot of people have doubts about him and his motives and his leadership definitely puts people off.
 
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luka

Well-known member
when i was just reading about CBB in the star i was on the side of chantelle etc but when i actually started watching it i had to switch alligiences. you start to understand why pete burns is so rude to them.

i thought this was funny by the way

'and Galloway is what? – the daddy you never had by the sound of it.'
 

jasonh

Newbie
k-punk said:
Egomaniacal sure, good. But misognyistic, what's the evidence for that? Because he didn't have any time for Traci, Chantelle and poor liccle Jodie? If they were representative of all women, I'd be misogynistic, and rightly so.

Great post overall, some of which I do agree with (after some thought on the matter). However, just because the three women mentioned are obviously a bit thick, doesn't mean he could treat them so obviously badly (I wouldn't). His behaviour towards Rula and Fariah was pretty awful at times as well. Not forgetting his "ex"-wife (back in the real world).

Like I said, I do sneakily admire GG for his performance before Congress, but CBB has made me lose a bit of respect for him. Then again, I don't particularly like any of the housemates for one reason or another, simply because they manage to illustrate how vacuous and dull the vast majority of our celebrity culture is. It would be perfectly ironic if Chantelle did win, even though she is as dull as the rest of them.

CBB - a perfect illustration of Sartre's point that "hell is other people"!
 

Droopy

New member
didn't gg go to iraq on some kind of fact-finding mission about the unfairness of sanctions? thats a long way from what rumsfeld went for. although sucking up to saddam in the way that he did left a nasty taste in the mouth no matter what his intentions.

Haha didn’t actually expect an answer to why Galloway went over . I thought I was making a stronger point when I wrote that but not sure what I was getting at apart from defending Galloway according to Rumsfeld’s standards isn’t that convincing.

when i was just reading about CBB in the star i was on the side of chantelle etc but when i actually started watching it i had to switch alligiences. you start to understand why pete burns is so rude to them.

I know what you mean although I’m a pathetic BB viewer in that I like it better when they’re all getting on and nothing’s happening and it’s really BORING so not surprising I don’t like Pete. Having said that none of them seemed that bothered about Pete’s attacks and he hardly got any nominations after the first week so who cares.

Just watching Paul Morley on Richard and Judy and he’s for Chantelle so that makes me feel better. Amanda Platell is for Pete Burns if anyone’s interested.
 

luka

Well-known member
Paul Hotflush (who is he again?) predicting the rise of Cameron. Mark Fisher, Owen Hatherley and Nina Power arguing with the likes of 'Gabriel from Heatwave' and one of the geezers from The Black Dog.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Isn't that post-dubstep house titan Scuba, who said that Dissensians were a 'bunch of cunts' (or something similar)?
 
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