Why doesn't anyone here like 'indie' music anymore?

[zhao]

just to clarify

2 definitions of "indie":

1. music that is obscure, relatively less known, left of center. as opposed to "major"/"mainstream"/etc.

2. a genre of derivitive and cliche ridden poseur Rock'n'roll/Singer Songwriter crap that clueless, Von-Dutch wearing trendy morons and high-school kids are into.

 

[harbourlights]

But what I'm saying is that it seems from the attitudes and interests on this baord that it's roots are dare I say it - 'indie'! [/QUOTE]

I'd also say that sentence on a dance-inclined site 18 or 19 years after a mass dance culture originated presumed an awful lot. I should imagine that as someone on here has already said many come from the 1988-early 90s dance scene, others from even earlier (pre house dance music (hiphop, funk, soul etc) or maybe early electronic/experiemental stuff.

If anyone's been immersed in the less studenty end of the British dance culture you'll realise that many have always felt a hostility/total lack of interest towards that whole electric guitar/NME scene.

What has always been noticeable however is that a lot of the pop music "intelligencia" have still paid lip service to the validity of dinosaur-like indie music.
Now however at the moment that the mass media is trumpeting the triumph of the guitar bands i've noticed over the last few weeks for the 1st time what seems to be a real sea change in attitudes amongst thinking music fans from all strands of opinion and not just dance/electronica . On sites like this I've noticed a real hostility and exasperation with these "copies of copies of copies" indie guitar bands which I've never noticed to such an extent before.
I'm hoping that what we're seeing now are the early signs of the beginning of the end for rock n roll/electric guitar music (about bloody time)as this attitude continues to spread out from just the thinking music fans.

We almost destroyed the rock beast in 1988-92 but many were prepared to give it another chance thinking there was still something worth saving and that attitude in alliance with the music biz corporatism which always hated a dance culture they could never understand kept it alive.

15 years later and surely reaching its utter nadir with the Arctic Monkeys/Franz Ferdinand/Kaiser Chiefs I'm hoping its not long now until we can consign it to the past.

 

[big satan]

We almost destroyed the rock beast in 1988-92 but many were prepared to give it another chance thinking there was still something worth saving and that attitude in alliance with the music biz corporatism which always hated a dance culture they could never understand kept it alive.

15 years later and surely reaching its utter nadir with the Arctic Monkeys/Franz Ferdinand/Kaiser Chiefs I'm hoping its not long now until we can consign it to the past.

you can list all the shit bands you like, but until dance music can cut it live it will never be able to "kill" rock music.

 

[Tim F]

"a genre of derivitive and cliche ridden poseur Rock'n'roll/Singer Songwriter crap that clueless, Von-Dutch wearing trendy morons and high-school kids are into."

Oh no!! Who will stop the hordes of clueless Von-Dutch wearing trendy morons and high-school kids!??!

 

[hint]

Oh no!! Who will stop the hordes of clueless Von-Dutch wearing trendy morons and high-school kids!??!

Bruza and Aerial Pink, obviously.

 

[blunt]

you can list all the shit bands you like, but until dance music can cut it live it will never be able to "kill" rock music.

Come off it - that's just lazy. There are plenty of dance music acts that cut it live, and there have been for yonks: from Prince to Orbital, Matthew Herbert to Jamie Lidell.

 

[zhao]

There are plenty of dance music acts that cut it live, and there have been for yonks

and on an expansive note, Duke Ellington certainly more than cut it live - that shit MASHED up the dancehall in its time.

and Buddy holly, Jerry Lewis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, that was ALL of it SHIT TO GET DOWN N DIRTY, BOOGIE (rave) TILL DAWN to.

you dig?

the dancing roots of everything from jazz to rock'n'roll itself can not be denied.

the current polarization of "performance" music - rock, and "dance" music - electronic, is peculiar indeed, and is perhaps a mirror of/can be attributed to, increased polarization of social spheres.

but how long can this dichotomy last? not long I suspect. exactly as long as the current socio-economic structure stands.

people want bigger than life personalities, they want captivating performances AND they want to dance.

 

[shykitten]

the quintessential indie artist of 2005 was AFX/Aphex Twin.

as a friend told me on hearing some of the Analord tracks: "that's 'Cake' music. you need help listening to that." quite right too. great stuff.

 

[harbourlights]

you can list all the shit bands you like, but until dance music can cut it live it will never be able to "kill" rock music.

as people have said there are dance acts that can cut it live but im not just on about dance acts i dont believe :
jazz, soul, folk, world music, soul, classical music etc etc can be classed as rock music but they can all cut it live..but without the tiresome juvenile pretend "rebellion" that invariably accompanies modrn rock music.
Rock had its time and will aways have its fans but should now be consigned to a quaint niche rather like that occupied by dated genres such as trad jazz...

 

[big satan]

and on an expansive note, Duke Ellington certainly more than cut it live - that shit MASHED up the dancehall in its time.

and Buddy holly, Jerry Lewis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, that was ALL of it SHIT TO GET DOWN N DIRTY, BOOGIE (rave) TILL DAWN to.

you dig?

the dancing roots of everything from jazz to rock'n'roll itself can not be denied.

the current polarization of "performance" music - rock, and "dance" music - electronic, is peculiar indeed, and is perhaps a mirror of/can be attributed to, increased polarization of social spheres.

but how long can this dichotomy last? not long I suspect. exactly as long as the current socio-economic structure stands.

people want bigger than life personalities, they want captivating performances AND they want to dance.

well the best rock shows i've been to in recent months are the ones where people dance (or whatever) and the band puts on a beast of a performance e.g. wolf eyes, melt banana. i don't know why people are so reticent to move about at rock shows these days. i'm not against dancing, or dance music at all, infact i like both, i was just irritated by the idea of "killing" rock. but lets face facts, while there are some dance acts who can cut it live, most dance (or to be specific, digital) based music is dull live because it's boring to watch someone click their mouse whilst drinking coffee, no matter how much their mate tries to liven it up by doing a funny dance.
but on the other hand habourlights it doesn't surprise me that you hate rock music if you rely on the mainstream to deliver you new bands. do you rely on mainstream channels for any other styles of music? fake rebellion is lame, but i can't think of many bands (or even any) outside the mainstream trying to pull off that last gang in town thing. there are plenty of bands doing new things, they just aren't ever going to be famous.

 

[Buick6]

well the best rock shows i've been to in recent months are the ones where people dance (or whatever) and the band puts on a beast of a performance e.g. wolf eyes, melt banana. i don't know why people are so reticent to move about at rock shows these days. i'm not against dancing, or dance music at all, infact i like both, i was just irritated by the idea of "killing" rock. but lets face facts, while there are some dance acts who can cut it live, most dance (or to be specific, digital) based music is dull live because it's boring to watch someone click their mouse whilst drinking coffee, no matter how much their mate tries to liven it up by doing a funny dance.
but on the other hand habourlights it doesn't surprise me that you hate rock music if you rely on the mainstream to deliver you new bands. do you rely on mainstream channels for any other styles of music? fake rebellion is lame, but i can't think of many bands (or even any) outside the mainstream trying to pull off that last gang in town thing. there are plenty of bands doing new things, they just aren't ever going to be famous.

This is an interesting point, made moreso by the fact in recent times that 'twee' indie bands have sorta embraced the 'dance' things on their own term ie: DANCE MUSIC WITHOUT THE SEX IN IT. I mean there are 'indie' nights that are trying to emulate a dance-club vibe, but minus the sex. Also you have agit-prop group like LE TIGRE who crossed over-momentarily with Electro-clash and that Giggolo/Miss Kitten sorta scene, but on their own takes on 'dance' or the 'gay' thing (coz that's their raison d'etre) are so self-conscious and crappy that they miss the most important ingredient THE BIG BAD SEX! I mean you might as well go to a gay or mixed-underground dance-club, you'll get yr political message of tolerance if you want but you get way better, sexier, funky choons (in amongst terrible dance covers of Bacharach/David tunes).

Innareastng I recently saw the White Strips and the way they cut-up and mix simple blues and pop tunes, coupled with Megs tribal 'doof' garage beat gives them a 'dance' friendly groove for the massive rck juggernaut by osmosis, which aint a mean feat.

You have to be mindful that 'indie' in it most aesthetic sense is just an extension of 'art rock's wider umbrella. So whether its dancey or guitary or noisy or folky, they all seem to have a close symbiosis with the art world, and that essentially is where the 'indie' thing gets its dynamic.

 

[zhao]

on the other hand electronic people can have a very limited idea of Dance. genre specific rhythms does not work outside of specialized contexts. period. and it's a lot of fun to boogie to the Meters.

for a mixed crowd party type atmosphere I've evolved my sets to include loads of 60s funk/soul, salsa/samba/bossa, garage punk, dance-punk, old school hiphop, rare disco, and maybe, MAYBE when it gets to 1AM I hit it with the techno or breaks.

 

[Ned]

the current polarization of "performance" music - rock, and "dance" music - electronic, is peculiar indeed, and is perhaps a mirror of/can be attributed to, increased polarization of social spheres.

but how long can this dichotomy last? not long I suspect. exactly as long as the current socio-economic structure stands.

Yes, I've definitely always thought Marxism is the answer to mediocre indie bands.

 

[Buick6]

Yes, I've definitely always thought Marxism is the answer to mediocre indie bands.

Please explain.

 

[luka]

thats called sarcasm

 

[zhao]

glad to see our usual supply of snark has not dwindled.

but it was also a good observation that I sometimes tend to take good ol' Karl's point of view.

 

[bassnation]

on the other hand electronic people can have a very limited idea of Dance. genre specific rhythms does not work outside of specialized contexts. period. and it's a lot of fun to boogie to the Meters.

this all depends on whos listening. you can get an amazing reaction dropping old skool house music at house parties, for example. it doesn't have to turn into a jeff mills set just cos you drop something electronic. house and the rest of it is just as much a part of our musical heritage as anything else, so why ghettoise it?

on the other hand, i'm sure everyones suffered a ear-splitting inappropriate funky house set at a gathering which i think is what you probably mean.