Why Conspiracy Theories?

[Mr. Tea]

Let people have their funny beliefs.

But to return to this: I don't think Holocaust denial is all that funny, really. Or the fact that the current POTUS is a climate denialist. This is what I meant by real-world consequences.

And speaking of Aids denialism, Thabo Mbeki fell prey to that particular scam and restricted antiretroviral drugs in South Africa in a misguided attempt to "decolonise medicine", which killed an estimated third of a million people (almost all of them black).

 

[luka]

The paedo thing boils down mainly to Epstein and his circle, as far as I know - certainly some high-profile figures there (current and former POTUSes, e.g.) but it's hardly every important or influential person on earth, is it? I mean did Xi Jinping ever get involved? Putin? Ban Ki Moon?

The satanist stuff smacks of tabloid sensationalism and I'm sure you've said here before that you think non-human entities are involved.

If you were to twist my arm and force me to opt for one conspiracy or another here, I'd say it's more likely that the more lurid and far-out rumours have been started by Them themselves precisely to get people talking about all that stuff that boring old skeptics like me would dismiss out of hand in order to distract from the boring truth that these people are ruthless and amoral but not actually all that interesting in themselves. The banality of evil, and all that.

Luka will, in turn, dismiss this idea out of hand, because "the boring explanation is always the wrong one".

It's a good maxim

 

[luka]

But to return to this: I don't think Holocaust denial is all that funny, really. Or the fact that the current POTUS is a climate denialist. This is what I meant by real-world consequences.

And speaking of Aids denialism, Thabo Mbeki fell prey to that particular scam and restricted antiretroviral drugs in South Africa in a misguided attempt to "decolonise medicine", which killed an estimated third of a million people (almost all of them black).

Nobody here is a holocaust denier lol

 

[Mr. Tea]

I mean I can't tell if you're trying to wind me up again or you really think stuff like this doesn't matter.

 

[luka]

You're trying to have a different discussion now. It's not a discussion with me. You can have it by yourself,if you want but don't pretend I'm involved in it.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Nobody here is a holocaust denier lol

I didn't say that. I said that several people here, you included, are susceptible to the style of thinking that makes Holocaust denial possible.

In fact I asserted that there is no value in questioning whether it was a real event and patty basically disagreed with me, and even namechecked a notorious extreme antisemite. If the "official story" must always be questioned, and it's the official story that the Holocaust was real, then it's an inevitable end point of that line of thinking.

It's an very apposite example of the hippy/Nazi crossover phenomenon.

 

[luka]

Not interested in that conversation as I say. Nothing to do with me. Doesn't relate to anything I've ever said.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Not interested in that conversation as I say. Nothing to do with me. Doesn't relate to anything I've ever said.

Ignore me, then. I'm responding mainly to patty.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Icke is on good terms with the Ku Klux Klan and has claimed that the Holocaust was organised by Jews and that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a real document

Jones is a far-right ideologue, a shameless huckster and conman, and helped popularize a conspiracy theory about the Sandy Hook mass shooting that led to the father of one of the victims getting death threats.

I don't know how any normal person can view men like these two with anything other than revulsion and contempt, let alone think "Yes, these guys have important things to say about the world."

 

[Mr. Tea]

And Epstein was a billionaire. Billionaires tend to mix with other billionaires. I sincerely hope you're not assuming everyone he ever met is therefore obviously into fucking kids. Has anyone actually accused Bill Gates of this? Like the 25-odd women who've accused Trump of raping or otherwise assaulting them, including one who was 13 at the time.

I remember you dismissing all this a whole ago with an argument that amounted more or less to "he doesn't seem the type."

 

[pattycakes_]

I take it you're not actually reading my posts in this thread then?

The thing you quoted luka saying about Ancient Indians was something he quoted from one of my posts and the Trump thing was addressed again 3 posts up. And yeah I stand by him not being Perverse on the level of the Clintons. Which in a classic shut down move, you glibly conflate to me saying he's not the type. I don't think he's evil per se. He's a malleable buffoon. I have no idea who did what with Epstein, and neither do you. But so far, only a handful of people have been accused of actual sexual abuse. But considering his death, and the way the cctv evidence has been handled, are you saying things don't look a little fishy?

Icke is on good terms with the Ku Klux Klan and has claimed that the Holocaust was organised *by Jews* and that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a real document

No point in digging any further in this direction, it's not going to get us anywhere. But do you have any further info on Icke and the KKK? Never heard that one beforeand google isn't coming up with anything obvious. There are plenty of shady dealings between the US and the Nazis. I wouldn't be surprised if some organisation or other under again, a token claim of Judaism, could be involved in such things. Without wanting to get into it at all, I don't think the official narrative for WW2 is anywhere near as organic as we are led to believe. I also don't need everything someone says to be 100% for me to take interest in some of what they have to say.

Jones is a far-right ideologues, a shameless huckster and conman, and helped popularize a conspiracy theory about the Sandy Hook mass shooting that led to the father of one of the victims getting death threats.

The Sandy Hook thing is horrible, but it's not like he asked people to make those death threats. He's made things difficult for himself, and he got way too into his role, but I thin once you've taken it upon yourself to be a public truth seeker, you go all in. And that's why most sensible people keep quiet. Because there's no way to look anything but crazy. But, he is in no way far-right.

My point earlier was simply about things those two had been saying over and over for decades finally coming true. Nothing about me being on their side. The very fact that it is they of all people who are starting to look less and less crazy says a lot about the state of the world. It's more or less the same as luka saying vigilant citizen is appearing more and more like regular news reporting now.

 

[pattycakes_]

Actually forget the Icke, let's leave it.

 

[sadmanbarty]

this isn't being facetious (i've been in the same spot before). but are either tea or patty happy they've had this conversation? do either of you feel better for it? is it fun and engaging, maybe a bit of intellectual sport, etc. or is it just frustrating and consuming?

when i used to get bogged down in these types of discussions on here i found it to be the latter and have enjoyed the forum much more since i stopped.

 

[luka]

https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/the-eerie-synchronicity-surrounding-kobe-bryants-death/

The Whitney Houston one he links to is good too

 

[yyaldrin]

one of the ww2 conspiracies i learned lately is that the dutch royal family in exile (they fled to england like the snakes they are) ratted out pockets of the dutch resistance to the german nazi's shortly before the end of the war. who then executed them of course. there's also the operation gladio thing that is gigantic, stuff like that should be thought at school.

 

[luka]

Yeah the Gladio stuff is huge. Real eye openeing stuff. Changes your image of what reality is

 

[pattycakes_]

this isn't being facetious (i've been in the same spot before). but are either tea or patty happy they've had this conversation? do either of you feel better for it? is it fun and engaging, maybe a bit of intellectual sport, etc. or is it just frustrating and consuming?

when i used to get bogged down in these types of discussions on here i found it to be the latter and have enjoyed the forum much more since i stopped.

We're part of a framework which doesn't allow rational discussion of these matters by opposing sides. Well maybe that's most matters these days? Does good intellectual debate happen anywhere in 2020? You're either sane and dismiss it all (while ignoring the ever growing list of documented conspiracies) or stark raving bonkers and easily drawn into a frothing mess like moi. Or sensible like yyaldrin and step out when it looks like it's going awry.

This is of course, also a conspiracy.

 

[sadmanbarty]

i think patty needs to go backpacking again. go to the developing world again. go live in a jungle for a bit. winter's got him down. berlin's all dreary. he's had too much drab techno in his life, he needs more carnivals and capoeira.

 

[luka]

Berlin is morbid. And there's too many drugs around.

 

[yyaldrin]

if my english would be a bit better and if i'd type a bit faster i'd engage a bit more in these kind of discussions but it's too exhausting for me, all it takes now is someone telling me i'm a rage against the machine fan and i'm gone. i do like it when other people try though, like subvert47. it makes for a better balance.