Beer And Beer Drinking
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Top-fermented beer served draught with a live yeast culture in it.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
so are bottle conditioned ale with live yeast in are not real ale? ah, getting confused
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think CAMRA reckons live bottled beers count as real ale. I'm inclined to agree, they have a bite and freshness to them that pasteurized beers don't have.
Basically, if it's top-fermented and there's live yeast in it, it's real ale, whether on tap or in a bottle.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I dunno, on the one hand I can see that "Craft Beer" makes sense as a term for beer that's brewed on a small scale with attention to taste and quality regardless of whether it's craft conditioned, but on the other hand, it reminds me a bit of a comment on one of Woebot's videocast things about how a lot of people basically like prog rock but say they're into "Canterbury sound" and "krautrock" and "space rock" and things because they don't want to actually use the 'p'-word. And 'Craft Beer' seems to basically mean "basically real ale but for people with ironic beards rather than unironic beards." It seems to be creating a false dichotomy between boring old real ale which is all about men in hobgoblin t-shirts knocking back boring pints of indistinguishable mid-brown ales in between morris dances, and "Craft Beer" which is an vibrant, modern, international thing for people of all ages and genders (ie well-off 20-something blokes) with an interest in challenging and exciting beers.
I should probably worry less about this.
I should probably worry less about this.
you probably should. i think wanting to distance yourself from people who bring notepads and test tubes to a pub is no bad thing really.
i don't really care what you call it. if it is nice, i'll drink it.
i had some very nice beers at that beer fest last night. magic 8ball black ipa being my favourite of the bunch. very tasty.
i don't really care what you call it. if it is nice, i'll drink it.
i had some very nice beers at that beer fest last night. magic 8ball black ipa being my favourite of the bunch. very tasty.
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
But people also seem to be distancing themselves from people whose groundwork they're building on, and from people who've been doing essentially the same thing for years, which seems like a bit of an IDM attitude... like I say, it's a false dichotomy. A lot of the decent pubs around here will sell you all sorts of european and US bottled stuff, some real ales with modern looking pumpclips and some real ales with old fashioned looking pumpclips, and have been doing so since well before there was a "british craft beer movement".
And it's now 45 minutes and counting until I can take advantage of this fact...
i think you're making a lot of fuss about nothing really. to me there is no dichotomy there, and no one seems to be trying to suggest there is. craft beer has no real meaning in britain. it's an american term for small independent breweries. the british 'craft beer' people are generally small, independent breweries who been excited by what breweries like odell, flying dog etc have been doing and started using similar techniques.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I know no-one here is saying it, but I think some of the appeal of 'craft' or 'micro' breweries lies in the idea that smaller brewery = better beer. Which I think is not really justified (I'm talking about real ale here, not A-B Budweiser, John Smith's Extra Smooth or any of that bollocks). Case in point: Tim Taylor Landlord is a pretty mainstream ale now, having been relatively obscure a decade or so ago, and I still think it's pretty good. London Pride and Young's Bitter (their regular 3.7% one) are very, very drinkable when they're kept well; Fuller's London Porter is one of the best black beers going, IMO; Sam Smith's is another pretty decent mid-sized brewery. OTOH some of the worst beers I've tasted have come from the much smaller Cottage brewery - but then, all their pump clips are decorated with charmingly naff paintings of steam trains and have names like Heavy Gauge or Flying Scotsman, so they're clearly going for the unironically-bearded market. It's very much 'real ale' as opposed to 'craft beer', in other words.
That's not to say there aren't some genuinely excellent smaller brewers, obviously. Phoenix (I know Scott's with me on this one), Hopback, O'Hanlons - no idea why these guys aren't more well known, most of their beers are available bottle-condition too so there's no reason they shouldn't be in supermarkets and specialist offies up and down the country.
That's not to say there aren't some genuinely excellent smaller brewers, obviously. Phoenix (I know Scott's with me on this one), Hopback, O'Hanlons - no idea why these guys aren't more well known, most of their beers are available bottle-condition too so there's no reason they shouldn't be in supermarkets and specialist offies up and down the country.
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
There are good breweries small and large, obviously. By and large, I'd say that the small ones that are crap are crap because they're not very good at brewing (or have a different idea from you of what to look for in a beer), though, rather than because they're soulless and corporate and only care about churning stuff out to make money.
Interestingly, though, you could argue that Fullers fit the US definition of a craft brewer - the differing sizes of the markets means their output would be considered fairly small in the states!
Interestingly, though, you could argue that Fullers fit the US definition of a craft brewer - the differing sizes of the markets means their output would be considered fairly small in the states!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Could be! Obviously a brew-co like Anheuser-Busch is colossal, I mean they're basically the OCP of beer aren't they, but I have no idea how big (say) the Sierra Nevada co. or Goose Eye is. Big enough to export a fair amount of beer to Britain, I guess, but not necessarily huge.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Ha, shows what I know about the US brewing trade. So what genuine American 'micros' produce beer that you might find in the UK? I like Blue Moon wheat beer but Wiki says "Blue Moon Brewing Co. is a part of Tenth and Blake Beer Company, the craft and import division of Chicago-based MillerCoors".
yeah i agree with that. you also have flying dog, victory, and ska. i'm not really sure about the size of breweries like anchor or sierra nevada or those type of guys.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
Anyone been a Camra member? Is it worth it I wonder.
Kernel's Pale Ale still doing it, although I don't think I'd have more than a single bottle of it. It seems to last a while as it's pretty strongly tasting.
Kernel's Pale Ale still doing it, although I don't think I'd have more than a single bottle of it. It seems to last a while as it's pretty strongly tasting.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I am. It's basically worth it for free entry (and no queues) at Cambridge beer festival. Also I'm broadly in favour of most of the stuff they campaign for, so it seems like a reasonable thing to support.
Other news, I've been enjoying a lot of Buntingford beers recently. Quite fresh and interesting, but without getting into garlic and blueberry porters or endurance hop-fests.
woops
is not like other people
Bière Picon
I almost drank bière Picon last night, I'd never seen a bottle of this 18% orange liqueur, Picon, before, only heard that adding a drop to beer is an idea.
I'm going to go back for some later this week. It seems you want about 95% beer / 5% Picon.
I almost drank bière Picon last night, I'd never seen a bottle of this 18% orange liqueur, Picon, before, only heard that adding a drop to beer is an idea.
I'm going to go back for some later this week. It seems you want about 95% beer / 5% Picon.
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viktorvaughn
Well-known member
My sister got me a CAMRA membership for my birthday. You get a load (£15 in total I think) of weatherspoons vouchers for 50p off real ale which I probably will use for a few pints here and there. Makes a pint about, what, £1.60?
Also used my card for 20p off a pint at the Pineapple in Kentish Town, so already clawed back 60p there (all the beers tasted really well kept too, always a bonus).